Originally posted by Charles
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US policy that ignores the slaughter of Christians and others in the SUDAN
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That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Charles View PostPraying for someone is not the same as supporting them as politicians and supporting most or in some cases everything they do. I am sure you know the difference.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostThen you are ignorant on how foreign relations actually work.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostOr I have a different opinion on how they should work and where to draw the line.
Pakistan? Hosting the Taliban, executing people for speaking bad about Muhamad, over 1,000 "honor killings" every year. Saudi Arabia? Afghanistan? Bribery, embezzlement, and corruption are rampant. Egypt? Regularly murders protesters for peacefully protesting. Uzbekistan? Tortures and murders people for merely practicing their religion outside the state's rules. Bahrain? Murders peaceful protesters and jails members of the press that are critical of the government. Myanmar? Routinely brutalizes ethnic and religious minorities. Azerbaijan? So corrupt that the voting authorities posted the results of their dictator's reelection a day before voting actually happened. Ethiopia? Regularly imprisons journalists and dissidents and committed war crimes multiple times in the past decade. Tajikistan? One of the highest concentrations of traffickers in heroine and widespread torture of political dissidents. Rwanda? Several assassinations of political opponents, journalists and other enemies. Honduras? The world's murder capital. Uganda? Qatar? UAE? Kyrgyzstan?
When is corrupt too corrupt for your palate?
Political disagreements are usually based on difference of opinion.
I have ideas and ideals that are so strong that I do not wish to compromise them.
People who have had such ideas and ideals have sometimes changed history and how things "actually work".That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostSo where would you draw the line?
Pakistan? Hosting the Taliban, executing people for speaking bad about Muhamad, over 1,000 "honor killings" every year. Saudi Arabia? Afghanistan? Bribery, embezzlement, and corruption are rampant. Egypt? Regularly murders protesters for peacefully protesting. Uzbekistan? Tortures and murders people for merely practicing their religion outside the state's rules. Bahrain? Murders peaceful protesters and jails members of the press that are critical of the government. Myanmar? Routinely brutalizes ethnic and religious minorities. Azerbaijan? So corrupt that the voting authorities posted the results of their dictator's reelection a day before voting actually happened. Ethiopia? Regularly imprisons journalists and dissidents and committed war crimes multiple times in the past decade. Tajikistan? One of the highest concentrations of traffickers in heroine and widespread torture of political dissidents. Rwanda? Several assassinations of political opponents, journalists and other enemies. Honduras? The world's murder capital. Uganda? Qatar? UAE? Kyrgyzstan?
When is corrupt too corrupt for your palate?
True. But that's not the question, about mere disagreements. It's about condoning human rights violations and how far we are willing to bend as a nation.
Then you would be as isolationist as they come, because EVERY country does something that is evil.
Again, not what is in view here. The OP asks about normalizing relations with the Sudan and their record of human rights violations. I'm saying that those who are against this normalizing should be against having normal relationships with every nation if they want to be consistent.
And we are talking about initiating a new position, not reascending an existing one. And there is a difference.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNo, not 'every nation'. Some are worse that others. The SUDAN is one of the worst.
And we are talking about initiating a new position, not reascending an existing one. And there is a difference.
Jim
That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostI've listed several "of the worst" that we either have or developed normalized relations with. It isn't unusual to normalize relations with countries that have poor human rights records.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostIt is the good old "someone else did it" or "it is not unusual" type of argument. Many posters on tweb used it quite often thought it does nothing to show what is right or wrong morally speaking.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostIf we refused relations with every country that does something morally wrong, we'd all be extreme isolationists.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostYour reply does not answer the point. You are rather pointing to one extreme that we can all agree we should not go to. That does not imply everything except for the extreme is ok. So what is your point apart from what we all knew already?That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostMy point is that we have normalized relations with all sorts of non-adversarial immoral nations, so the Sudan wouldn't be any different. Unless a nation is a direct threat, we don't refuse normal diplomatic measures.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostSo back to the appeal to common practise. I was asking why it was right or wrong. Do you understand the question?That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostYou're asking the wrong question. It's beyond too simplistic. It is wrong to have normal diplomatic relations with a country that is actively trying to destroy yours. Anything else is a sliding scale.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostYou are moving a bit closer but you are not quite there.
You have not really even started to explain why or how this sliding scale works.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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