Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

On the horizon

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Here's another question I have. How can a black hole actually swallow anything from the outside? If time slows down as you approach the singularity and basically stops at the event horizon (the speed of light), then it would basically take an eternity for anything to actually fall into black hole wouldn't it?
    Subjective time stops. Empirical time keeps trotting along as always. So it basically means that if you were approaching the black hole, you would not experience the passage of time, but time is still elapsing. Zip off fast enough from Earth and then come back two hours later, a few centuries might have passed for the Earth itself.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Subjective time stops. Empirical time keeps trotting along as always. So it basically means that if you were approaching the black hole, you would not experience the passage of time, but time is still elapsing. Zip off fast enough from Earth and then come back two hours later, a few centuries might have passed for the Earth itself.
      uh no. There is no such thing as "empirical time" -- The time for someone falling into a black hole would slow down. If you were watching them from afar, you would see their movements slow down and stop as the approached the event horizon. (of course they would be spaghettified long before but let's ignore that) - the person falling into the black hole would see the outside universe speed up, years and centuries would start to pass by in seconds. It would literally take him forever to fall into the black hole as time slowed and came to a halt as he approached the event horizon from an outside observers viewpoint.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Here's another question I have. How can a black hole actually swallow anything from the outside? If time slows down as you approach the singularity and basically stops at the event horizon (the speed of light), then it would basically take an eternity for anything to actually fall into black hole wouldn't it?
        time for you slows down, but not time as it relates to the observer watching you fall. So your motion doesn't stop in this universe because time stops for you relative to this universe. E.g. supposing you are orbiting at the speed of light. You are still moving, but time is stopped for you.

        But I'm seeing discussions that cover both possibilities - that you fall in as you observe it, even though people outside see you stop at the surface (so to speak). Others say you never actually fall in.

        My guess is nobody actually knows for sure if a collapsing star ends with multiple solar masses on an event horizon surface infinitely squashed or inside the event horizon itself in some infinite or nearly infinitely squashed form.


        Jim
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          The "why" question is easy: To proclaim God's glory.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            time for you slows down, but not time as it relates to the observer watching you fall. So your motion doesn't stop in this universe because time stops for you relative to this universe. E.g. supposing you are orbiting at the speed of light. You are still moving, but time is stopped for you.

            But I'm seeing discussions that cover both possibilities - that you fall in as you observe it, even though people outside see you stop at the surface (so to speak). Others say you never actually fall in.

            My guess is nobody actually knows for sure if a collapsing star ends with multiple solar masses on an event horizon surface infinitely squashed or inside the event horizon itself in some infinite or nearly infinitely squashed form.


            Jim
            Well if time slows and/or stops for you as you fall in, that means you would "take forever" to fall in even from someone observing you from the outside. They would see you moving slower and slower, as the gravity sucks you closer and closer to the event horizon. I think they would see you stop at the event horizon. So nothing actually goes into the event horizon and into the black hole. It all stops at the event horizon.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Well if time slows and/or stops for you as you fall in, that means you would "take forever" to fall in even from someone observing you from the outside. They would see you moving slower and slower, as the gravity sucks you closer and closer to the event horizon. I think they would see you stop at the event horizon. So nothing actually goes into the event horizon and into the black hole. It all stops at the event horizon.
              If that were true, could we observe black hole mergers?
              "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                If that were true, could we observe black hole mergers?
                Like when Time Warner merged with CNN?


                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                  If that were true, could we observe black hole mergers?
                  Can we?

                  Or if we do, then does time actually slow down and stop at the event horizon?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Can we?
                    Don't think so. The event horizon's a fair distance from the singularity (to the extent that distance has meaning in this context), and i don't think it's the event horizons meeting that we're detecting.

                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Or if we do, then does time actually slow down and stop at the event horizon?
                    Whose time? The whole discussion is couched in terms of "time as experience by" issues.

                    In any case, nothing with mass can actually move at the speed of light, so time can't come to a stop for anything other than photons.
                    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                      Don't think so. The event horizon's a fair distance from the singularity (to the extent that distance has meaning in this context), and i don't think it's the event horizons meeting that we're detecting.


                      Whose time? The whole discussion is couched in terms of "time as experience by" issues.

                      In any case, nothing with mass can actually move at the speed of light, so time can't come to a stop for anything other than photons.
                      I don't think it has to move at the speed of light. We are talking a massive gravity well, which is the equivalent. It just means something would need to move faster than light to reach escape velocity (which it can't) - not that things entering it are moving at the speed of light.

                      And while time would pass differently for two observers, one near the event horizon and one farther out, each observer would see the time change in the other observer. The one near the event horizon would see the outside universe and the other observer speed up, faster and faster as they neared the event horizon, to the point that the entire universe would pass by into heat death in a flash before they entered the event horizon itself. The observer watching the one falling into the black hole would see them slow down, slower and slower till they stopped moving frozen in time as they fell in.

                      Comment

                      Related Threads

                      Collapse

                      Topics Statistics Last Post
                      Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
                      48 responses
                      135 views
                      0 likes
                      Last Post Sparko
                      by Sparko
                       
                      Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
                      16 responses
                      74 views
                      0 likes
                      Last Post shunyadragon  
                      Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
                      6 responses
                      46 views
                      0 likes
                      Last Post shunyadragon  
                      Working...
                      X