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Thread: The death of Jesus at the hands of the Romans

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    tWebber
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    The death of Jesus at the hands of the Romans

    Let's say that the Jewish leaders did not bring Jesus to the Romans to be executed.

    Do you think the Romans would have eventually killed Jesus anyway because He had such a huge following?

    Thanks.

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    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
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    Not unless they suspected that his motives were political rather than religious.
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

  3. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    People don't get that Jesus would have died exactly as He did because GOD was orchestrating everything.

    It is impossible to even consider "what if" in this or any other situation regarding Christ because the sovereignty of God was in place every moment of His life, and, in fact, before time began.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  5. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaFille View Post
    Not unless they suspected that his motives were political rather than religious.
    Just saw one of those History Channel "documentaries" on this, and they were heavily leaning on the fact that it was a Roman action, and only in the second century was the story "managed" to blame the Jews.
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    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Just saw one of those History Channel "documentaries" on this, and they were heavily leaning on the fact that it was a Roman action, and only in the second century was the story "managed" to blame the Jews.
    The Jewish leaders were absolutely pulling the strings. Even Pilate wanted to let him go, but didn't dare stand up to them. If it weren't for the Jews, the Romans wouldn't have killed him, but also if it wasn't for the Jews he wouldn't have even been there in the first place.
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

  8. Amen The Remonstrant amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaFille View Post
    The Jewish leaders were absolutely pulling the strings. Even Pilate wanted to let him go, but didn't dare stand up to them. If it weren't for the Jews, the Romans wouldn't have killed him, but also if it wasn't for the Jews he wouldn't have even been there in the first place.
    Yeah, you and I know that - this "documentary", however, insisted that we have a very twisted view of Pilate and who he was, and sounds downright conspiratorial in "the Early Christians were blaming the Jews" because the early Christians were downright antisemitic.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    People don't get that Jesus would have died exactly as He did because GOD was orchestrating everything.
    I understand that, but didn't the Romans think any Messianic claim would be a problem for them?

    Do you know if the Romans killed any want-a-be messiahs?

    I'm dealing with a Muslim who said someone else was on the cross and that "Allah" saved Jesus from death. Of course that didn't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaFille View Post
    The Jewish leaders were absolutely pulling the strings. Even Pilate wanted to let him go, but didn't dare stand up to them. If it weren't for the Jews, the Romans wouldn't have killed him, but also if it wasn't for the Jews he wouldn't have even been there in the first place.
    Pilate was not a nice guy. I think he was just toying with the Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    I understand that, but didn't the Romans think any Messianic claim would be a problem for them?
    At festivals, the population of Jerusalem would swell to as much as 10 time normal, so, yeah, whenever somebody had an audience of that many people, you can bet your gladiator costume the Romans would be concerned.

    Do you know if the Romans killed any want-a-be messiahs?
    That's an interesting question!

    I'm dealing with a Muslim who said someone else was on the cross and that "Allah" saved Jesus from death. Of course that didn't happen.
    That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";
    - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them,
    and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
    but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
    Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

    — Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157–158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Pilate was not a nice guy. I think he was just toying with the Jews.
    Pilate was afraid of the Jews. They had already gotten him into trouble with Caesar and he knew that if he didn't do what they wanted he would end up back in Rome before the emperor.

    Here is a little bit about why Pilate was already in trouble with the Jews:

    Herod wants nothing to do with Him. He just sent Him back (verse 11) to Pilate. And then the strange comment in verse 12, that they had been enemies and they became friends. We know why they were enemies. Philo, the historian, records that Pilate put shields in Herod Antipas’ palace. Romans shields with names of people that the Romans wanted to honor, that Pilate wanted to honor, he puts these shields in the house of Herod Antipas. The Jews believe these are idols. The Jews are upset. They send a message to Tiberius Caesar that Pilate is setting up idols in the city of Jerusalem.

    Tiberius Caesar thinks it’s ridiculous to provoke these people. He tells Pilate to take them down and to haul them off to Caesarea, the Roman city on the city on the coast, and put them in a pagan temple. Pilate does that, but he’s not real happy about having done that. The fact that Pilate did that and usurped that authority over Herod Antipas made them enemies. Herod Antipas wouldn’t have put those idols in his palace, Pilate did it and they were hostile, and from that time on until they agreed on what a joke Jesus was.
    https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-...e-before-jesus

    There's more in the same sermon transcript. I don't know if I'm supposed to post much more, but there's this:

    Now, Pilate was hated by the Jews. He was hated by them because of things like putting up idols, from their perspective, in their buildings. But what is interesting about Pilate here to me is that he repeatedly declares that Jesus is not guilty. “I find no fault in Him.” Three times - three times he pronounces Him not guilty. And the man didn’t get to the position he had by not having a sense of justice.

    He did have a sense of justice. He wanted to stand on justice. He wanted to maintain his legal ground. He wanted to do what was fit for a man of that dignified position. He wanted to do what would prove to the people who were above him that he was an honorable man. He wanted to treat Jesus in a just fashion.

    Justice is no threat to him. Jesus is certainly no threat to him or to Rome. But I’ll tell you who is a threat to him, the Jews are. They make his knees knock. They make him shake. Here’s why: On his first visit to Jerusalem, he came into town wanting to make a big show, and he came with this massive entourage of soldiers, and they were carrying banners and standards, and on the banners and standards were the busts of Caesar with an eagle. Caesar was considered a deity and the Jews saw this as an idol.

    By the way, all previous governors - from the historical records, all previous governors avoided such offenses, but Pilate was this brash, bold, proud man, adamant in refusing to remove the displays. He returned from Jerusalem with his banners, back to Caesarea, and the people followed him. And what happened was, when they got to Caesarea, the record says they harassed him for five days to remove the idols.

    Finally, in frustration, he told the people to meet in the amphitheater in Caesarea. And they came and he surrounded the people who had followed him with his soldiers, and he informed them that if they didn’t stop the harassment on the spot, they would all be massacred in that amphitheater by the Roman soldiers. The Jews pulled their collars down and bared their necks and said, “Go ahead and massacre us.” They called his bluff and he removed all the images, and they had won.
    And this. I urge you to read the whole thing.

    In the thirteenth chapter of Luke, in the opening five verses, it says he sent some of his men into the temple where some Jewish people were making sacrifice, and they took their knives and slaughtered all the people who were making sacrifices in the temple. This is Pilate. He was called back to Rome in 36 A.D., he was exiled to Gaul, and he killed himself, according to Josephus.
    Indeed, he wasn't a nice guy, but he was in a very tough spot and didn't want to aggravate the Jews any more than he already had.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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