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Thread: Turning from sin and conversion

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You ask some pretty strange questions for a Christian. You might want to start with John 3, John 10 and then move onto Romans 3-6 for an outline of the gospel. I am not going to spoon feed you stuff you should already know.
    I know the answers so I don't ask strange questions. I'm trying to counter a Muslim argument.

    My answer to where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins is:

    Matthew 20:28

    just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

  2. #22
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    I know the answers so I don't ask strange questions. I'm trying to counter a Muslim argument.

    My answer to where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins is:

    Matthew 20:28

    just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
    Then why were you asking ME?


  3. #23
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins?
    Yupp ... and I'm guessing that you are asking twenty questions to see whether you're smarter than the rest of us.

    However, that verse says there that he came to give his life as a ransom ... so it doesn't show that Jesus died for sins, only that he gave his life for many (and technically would not even necessarily involve death - there are many ways to give one's life).

    Romans 5:6,8; Rom 8:34 ... the list of passages showing that Jesus died for our benefit, and even because of sin is extensive. Where did Jesus say that he died for our sins? To the best of my knowledge he never made that EXPLICIT statement.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  4. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Then why were you asking ME?

    To see if my answer matches yours -- to get confirmation from another Christian.

  5. #25
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    To see if my answer matches yours -- to get confirmation from another Christian.
    right.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Yupp ... and I'm guessing that you are asking twenty questions to see whether you're smarter than the rest of us.
    You guessed wrong. I just wanted confirmation from other Christians.

    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post

    However, that verse says there that he came to give his life as a ransom ... so it doesn't show that Jesus died for sins, only that he gave his life for many (and technically would not even necessarily involve death - there are many ways to give one's life).
    Strong's Concordance
    lutron: a ransom
    Original Word: λύτρον, ου, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: lutron
    Phonetic Spelling: (loo'-tron)
    Definition: a ransom
    Usage: the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation.
    HELPS Word-studies

    Cognate: 3083 lýtron (a neuter noun) – literally, the ransom-money (price) to free a slave. 3083 (lýtron) is used in the NT of the ultimate "liberty-price" – the blood of Christ which purchases (ransoms) believers, freeing them from all slavery (bondage) to sin. 3083 (lýtron) occurs twice in the NT (Mt 10:28; Mk 10:45), both times referring to this purchase (ransom-price) which Christ paid. (See 3084) (lytroō).

    Romans 5:6,8; Rom 8:34 ... the list of passages showing that Jesus died for our benefit, and even because of sin is extensive. Where did Jesus say that he died for our sins? To the best of my knowledge he never made that EXPLICIT statement.[/QUOTE]

    I only want Jesus' words.

  7. #27
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I nearly agree with you, but cannot agree with your assertion that repentance and faith are the gift of God. Your idea of salvation is necessarily restricted to those to whom God deigns to grant it; if solely bestowed by God, faith and repentance are logically merely window dressing. Preaching is utterly pointless if we are powerless to respond to it.
    But preaching the word brings the power of God to grant repentance and faith, is my view. And repentance is a life-long virtue, said Spurgeon, as is faith ("I have kept the faith", said Paul). So there is room enough for our willing response.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  8. #28
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    You guessed wrong. I just wanted confirmation from other Christians.



    Strong's Concordance
    lutron: a ransom
    Original Word: λύτρον, ου, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: lutron
    Phonetic Spelling: (loo'-tron)
    Definition: a ransom
    Usage: the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation.
    HELPS Word-studies

    Cognate: 3083 lýtron (a neuter noun) – literally, the ransom-money (price) to free a slave. 3083 (lýtron) is used in the NT of the ultimate "liberty-price" – the blood of Christ which purchases (ransoms) believers, freeing them from all slavery (bondage) to sin. 3083 (lýtron) occurs twice in the NT (Mt 10:28; Mk 10:45), both times referring to this purchase (ransom-price) which Christ paid. (See 3084) (lytroō).


    I only want Jesus' words.
    Quite so. λυτρον means ransom - and sin isn't mentioned. Your question I believe was, where does Jesus say he was to die for mankind's sins?
    I cannot think of anywhere that he makes the explicit statement that he is to do for mankind's sins. Ransom for many doesn't say he will give his life for sins. And give his life doesn't mean (necessarily) die.
    Last edited by tabibito; 04-15-2019 at 12:04 PM.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  9. #29
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    What exactly is the good news Jesus preached?
    The good news of the kingdom of God (Luke 16:16). God reigns, and we may join in his kingdom as his subjects.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  10. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  11. #30
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    No, turning from sin is not an essential part of conversion. But it is strongly encouraged.

    Hebrews 12:7-8
    If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

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