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Thread: Turning from sin and conversion

  1. #111
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Irresistible grace without limited atonement would seem to logically require universalism.
    I do indeed hope that God will choose everyone!

    "For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
    so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.
    For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all." (Rom. 11:30–32)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  2. #112
    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Do you [The Remonstrant] believe that there is a distinction between how a "declared righteous" status is received from God and the consequence of being born again? Is giving one's allegiance to God the means by which a "declared righteous" status is received or is it the consequence of being born again?
    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Trying to find without success so far, a scriptural reference showing "declared righteous"[.]
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    At least the NET [New English Translation] Bible translates Rom 5:1 with "declared righteous", instead of "justified". I'm thinking the two terms are identical in meaning. [Emphases added.]
    Yes, you are correct. See also, for example, Romans 5.1 and 9 in the Christian Standard Bible (2017), Holman Christian Standard Bible (2009), Lexham English Bible (2012), and Young’s Literal Translation, where δικαιόω, dikaioó is rendered ‘declared righteous’ rather than ‘justified’.
    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

  3. #113
    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Remonstrant View Post
    I believe a better way to frame the encounter between the Lord Jesus and the rich, young ruler recorded in the Synoptic Gospels is not so much in terms of perfect law-keeping in order to gain entrance into God’s kingdom, but competing allegiances. To whom/what was the rich, young ruler committed? As demonstrated by the mournful departure of the young man from the Lord and his failure to obey Jesus’ counsel to part with his possessions, his loyalty rested not upon God, but mammon. The impossibility of a dual allegiance to God and wealth is explicitly declared by Christ: ‘“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon”’ (Mt 6.24, RSV; cf. Lk 16.13).
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Do you believe that there is a distinction between how a "declared righteous" status is received from God and the consequence of being born again? Is giving one's allegiance to God the means by which a "declared righteous" status is received or is it the consequence of being born again?
    Are you asking me something along the lines of ‘Does regeneration precede faith?’ If so, I would deny that it does.
    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

  4. #114
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Paul and James are using the "justified" in different senses. When Paul says "justified" he means "declared righteous" and when James says "justified" he means "shown to be righteous." According to Paul, we are declared righteous as soon as we put our faith in Jesus for our salvation. According to James, our works are an indication of whether we have been saved. Our works are not the means by which we receive salvation. They are a manifestation of whether we have been saved.

    James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    It helps to know where the translation comes from:

    "perfect" from the Koine Greek ετελειωθη - got completed (eteleiothe - aorist passive indicative third person singular) from teleioo - complete/finish/finalise

    It helps to read all of the text before drawing conclusions about single sections of the text:

    James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    And even that is before the Koine Greek distinctions between faith = belief and faith = loyalty/dedication are taken into account.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  5. #115
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    In context, it's obvious that all three of these carry the meaning "declared righteous."

    Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

    Luke 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

    Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

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