Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

Jimmy Carter On Homosexuality

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jimmy Carter On Homosexuality

    Does the former president have a clinching argument?

    Link

    ------

    Should we take what Jimmy Carter said seriously? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    I have seen this meme going around the past few months or so and saw it again yesterday on Facebook. Chances are, you have as well. I always give the same reply. As far as I know, the quote is authentically from Jimmy Carter, but even if it isn't, the message is still one that many Christians will find difficult to respond to and many others will treat as an unassailable argument.

    JimmyCarterMeme.jpg

    Maybe you're a Christian wondering how you should respond to that. After all, Jesus never said anything explicitly about homosexuality in the Bible. Also, it was very well known in the ancient world and this long before Jesus was born. Is it time to surrender this point? No.

    Here's what I initially post every time I see this.

    Pederasty was well-known in the ancient world, well before Christ was born, and Jesus never said a word about pederasty. In all of his teachings about multiple things, he never said that pederasts should be condemned.

    For those who don't know, this was a practice where an older man would take a younger boy in and mentor him. That mentoring would often involve making the younger boy a lover. The boy would traditionally play the female role. This was a common practice in the ancient world at the time of Jesus and Jesus never said a word about it.

    Now if the person posting this meme is going to be consistent, then they will need to approve of a practice that most of us would call child abuse or sexual abuse today. If they don't, then they are just cherry picking. This shows the problem with the argument because if you just submit another term in that can apply equally, the argument doesn't work.

    If anything, Jesus's silence should be seen as tacit approval of what the Torah said about homosexual practice. Jesus had no problem dealing with interpretations of the Law that He found to be problematic. On this one, He is incredibly silent on the matter. Could it because like pederasty, this wasn't an issue in ancient Israel?

    As for Jesus's stance on sex and marriage, it was much harder than those around Him. Jesus looked at both of the schools of His day on divorce and at the Essenes in Matthew 19 and went beyond both of them. His response many Christians today might think perfectly natural, but His own disciples were shocked by it.

    Jesus also spoke hard on lust, something that many of us guys would probably love to have taken out of the Bible. Committing adultery was wrong, but it is definitely just as bad to even look at a woman with the desire to fornicate with her. Why? Because on a cost-benefit analysis, if you can get away with doing it, you will do it.

    Don't let someone fool you with this kind of argumentation from Carter. Regardless of what I think of his politics, I can say he does not know what he's talking about with the Bible. Contrary to what the meme says, the Bible is something I think real Christians should stand up for.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    The other obvious points are that Jesus, the Jews and the OT all say that marriage is between a man and a woman. And that any sex outside of marriage is a sin. That would include homosexual sex or sex while single, or adultery.

    And the OT moral code is still in effect. Jesus referred to it many times. So that means what the OT said about homosexuality is still in effect. (Not to mention Jesus IS God so what was said in the OT was in effect what Jesus said)

    And Jesus's words are not the entirety of scripture. Paul's words on homosexuality are scripture also and inspired by God. And the bible says that there were many things Jesus did and said that were not recorded so the whole thing is an argument from silence.

    Comment


    • #3
      If Jimmy Carter were to give me advice on how to be a good POTUS, I'd take it with a grain of salt, politely declining to point out that he was, by most accounts, a miserable failure.
      If Jimmy Carter were to give me advice on nuclear submarines, I'd pay better attention because that's where his education was focused.

      For Jimmy to give me advice on interpreting the Bible, I'd suggest we talk nuclear submarines instead.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        If Jimmy Carter were to give me advice on how to be a good POTUS, I'd take it with a grain of salt, politely declining to point out that he was, by most accounts, a miserable failure.
        If Jimmy Carter were to give me advice on nuclear submarines, I'd pay better attention because that's where his education was focused.

        For Jimmy to give me advice on interpreting the Bible, I'd suggest we talk nuclear submarines instead.
        Nuclear Submarine sounds like a great name for some kind of sandwich involving especially spicy condiments.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          Nuclear Submarine sounds like a great name for some kind of sandwich involving especially spicy condiments.
          If we make a sandwhich with a really nice horseradish sauce that kicks you in the teeth can we call it The Battleship Yamato?
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            If Jimmy Carter were to give me advice on how to be a good POTUS, I'd take it with a grain of salt, politely declining to point out that he was, by most accounts, a miserable failure.
            But what if his daughter gave you the advice?

            Comment


            • #7
              Fortunately, we all know why Carter was so awful.

              Comment


              • #8
                IIRC, he never said anything about pedophila, necrophilia or even rape so I guess that means Jesus was okay with them

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  IIRC, he never said anything about pedophila, necrophilia or even rape so I guess that means Jesus was okay with them
                  Or vehicular homicide or internet pornography....
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Or slavery

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Or meth.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Or math.
                        We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alaskazimm View Post
                          Or math.
                          Math is definitely of the devil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            Math is definitely of the devil.

                            "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram

                            The Dominican Father Tommaso Caccini (d. 1648), most noted for his help in prosecuting Galileo, preached a sermon at the Santa Maria Novella in Florence on the subject of Joshua 10 on December 20, 1614 which insisted that "geometry is of the devil," and that "mathematics should be banished as the authors of all heresies." The church authorities promoted Caccini thereafter to the Master and Bachelor of the Santa Maria sopra Minerva convent in Rome.




                            Of course, during ancient and Medieval times astronomers were referred to as mathematicians as can be seen by another comment by Augustine ("One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: ‘I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon.’ For he willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians") and Caccini's sermon was directed in opposition to Galileo... but why take chances?

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheWall View Post
                              Or meth.
                              There was somebody on TWeb a few years ago who argued that it is immoral for governments to ban meth because if God saw fit to have it banned, it would have been mentioned in the Mosaic code. No joke.
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-15-2024, 10:19 PM
                              14 responses
                              74 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-13-2024, 10:13 PM
                              6 responses
                              60 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-12-2024, 09:36 PM
                              1 response
                              23 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-11-2024, 10:19 PM
                              0 responses
                              22 views
                              2 likes
                              Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-08-2024, 11:59 AM
                              3 responses
                              44 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post whag
                              by whag
                               
                              Working...
                              X