The Mueller Report

[firstfloor]

Rachel’s on the case. Excellent podcast. Much more to come.

[rogue06]

As always the truth is more complex:

Mueller says he did not make a “traditional prosecutorial judgement” on whether Trump did obstruct justice and adds that the evidence obtained about “the president’s actions and intent” threw up “difficult issues”.

However, the special counsel refused to exonerate Trump on the charge. “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” Mueller wrote in his conclusion.

He added: “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgement.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ion-of-justice

IOW, Mueller understood that even after a two year investigation that there was not sufficient evidence of obstruction of justice.

[Charles]

IOW, Mueller understood that even after a two year investigation that there was not sufficient evidence of obstruction of justice.

Correct but one-sided. Note the words that it was not a “traditional prosecutorial judgement”. And don't forget that Mueller clearly states: “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,”. If ignoring that makes it easier for you to come to a certain conclusion feel free but you are obviously skipping relevant parts.

[rogue06]

Correct but one-sided. Note the words that it was not a “traditional prosecutorial judgement”. And don't forget that Mueller clearly states: “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,”. If ignoring that makes it easier for you to come to a certain conclusion feel free but you are obviously skipping relevant parts.

Which still means that Mueller understood that even after a two year investigation that there was not sufficient evidence of obstruction of justice no matter how you try to spin it.

[rogue06]

Rachel’s on the case. Excellent podcast. Much more to come.

Poor Rachel. Anybody still watching her show any more? I understand she had a bump after her ratings cratered after the findings of Mueller were released -- you know the hopefully desperate falling for the siren song that Barr was covering up The Truth™ -- but after the release of the full report those fantasies are now dashed.

[Charles]

Which still means that Mueller understood that even after a two year investigation that there was not sufficient evidence of obstruction of justice no matter how you try to spin it.

Going for a partial account would be more of a spin, don't you think? I already said what you said was true but it is certianly not the whole truth. For some reason you want to ignore parts of what Mueller said. It is quite obvious and quite interesting.

[Charles]

Poor Rachel. Anybody still watching her show any more? I understand she had a bump after her ratings cratered after the findings of Mueller were released -- you know the hopefully desperate falling for the siren song that Barr was covering up The Truth™ -- but after the release of the full report those fantasies are now dashed.

Anyone who is fine with everything that report reveals is going for quite low standards.

[rogue06]

Anyone who is fine with everything that report reveals is going for quite low standards.

After two years of digging they came up empty handed. And as the report revealed, Trump put a document hold on his entire staff instructing them to preserve everything. This meant that he turned over all requested documents (+1,400,000) and allowed everyone to testify (never once claiming executive privilege). This caused Mueller to acknowledge that there never was any interference in his investigation from the Trump Administration (although Trump did rant and rave and sorely did want to). And still nothing.

Contrast that to how your side reacted. When Hillary received subpoenas she immediately deleted 33,000 emails, acid washed hard drives and smashed blackberries with hammers. And just imagine the reaction if Donald Jr. or Jared Kushner had a secret meeting with William Barr on the tarmac of an airport in which the Secret Service detail was told to step outside while they talked supposedly only about golf and grandkids.

[rogue06]

Going for a partial account would be more of a spin, don't you think? I already said what you said was true but it is certianly not the whole truth. For some reason you want to ignore parts of what Mueller said. It is quite obvious and quite interesting.

That is in effect what he concluded. That there wasn't sufficient evidence of obstruction of justice. Deal with it.

[Tassman]

It's kinda fun to watch the within the ranks of the Democrats over whether or not impeachment is still a good idea.

You enjoy watching people in disarray do you reverend?

The only issue with the Democrats is not whether Trump warrants impeaching, he clearly does, but whether it would be futile and divisive while the Republicans control the Senate.

[rogue06]

You enjoy watching people in disarray do you reverend?

The only issue with the Democrats is not whether Trump warrants impeaching, he clearly does, but whether it would be futile and divisive while the Republicans control the Senate.

Yeah because despising someone is an impeachable offense in your world.

[NorrinRadd]

You enjoy watching people in disarray do you reverend?

The only issue with the Democrats is not whether Trump warrants impeaching, he clearly does, but whether it would be futile and divisive while the Republicans control the Senate.

Your jibe indicates you are under the mistaken impression that "reverends" claim to be super-Christians.

[Charles]

After two years of digging they came up empty handed. And as the report revealed, Trump put a document hold on his entire staff instructing them to preserve everything. This meant that he turned over all requested documents (+1,400,000) and allowed everyone to testify (never once claiming executive privilege). This caused Mueller to acknowledge that there never was any interference in his investigation from the Trump Administration (although Trump did rant and rave and sorely did want to). And still nothing.

Coming to a conclusion in an investigation is not comming up empty handed. But perpaps you like to maintain a black and white idea about what the report reveals and the reason the investigation started in order to avoid the details not speaking in favour of Trump and his administration.

You are leaving out interesting stuff:

The Mueller report says that in June 2017, Trump told his White House counsel to call acting attorney general Rod Rosenstein and order him to fire Mueller. Trump declared: “Mueller has to go.”

Don McGahn, the counsel, refused, deciding he would rather resign than trigger what he regarded as a potential “Saturday Night Massacre” – a reference to Richard Nixon’s 1973 attempts to fire the special prosecutor investigating the Watergate scandal. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ion-of-justice

It appears Trump was saved by those refusing to carry out his orders. Interesting.

And more "details":

Other instances include Trump’s instruction to Comey to “lift the cloud” over his presidency – the cloud being Russia – and his subsequent firing of Comey for failing to make the cloud go away.

Also referenced are the president’s efforts to curtail Mueller’s investigation and to force Sessions – his unloved attorney general – to reverse his decision to recuse himself from the Russia investigation.

The report mentions Trump’s attempts to cover up the notorious Trump Tower meeting in June 2016 between Manafort, Don Jr, his son-in-law Jared Kushner and a Russian lawyer promising “dirt” on Clinton. It also cites his behaviour towards Michael Flynn and Michael Cohen – national security adviser and personal lawyer respectively – after they began cooperating with investigators.

One wonders why the very open minded Trump your partrait would not meet with Mueller. His written answers are described as inadequate...

Contrast that to how your side reacted. [...]

I am not on any side. Nor do i believe in relativism. Whataboutism is way too obvious, rogue.

[seer]

It appears Trump was saved by those refusing to carry out his orders. Interesting.

And as with his White House counsel and other White house staff, Trump could have invoked executive privilege and not allowed them to talk to Mueller (which is why we know these things). But he didn't, he was rather quite open. Which actually surprised me.

I am not on any side. Nor do i believe in relativism. Whataboutism is way too obvious, rogue.

It is about the double standard we see from you leftists. Perhaps I missed your posts about how upset you were will Clinton's actions.

[firstfloor]

IOW, Mueller understood that even after a two year investigation that there was not sufficient evidence of obstruction of justice.

Rachel explains your error.