Originally posted by JimL
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The Mueller Report
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat is silly Jim, Mueller certainly could have recommended to indict. Whether now (in office) or after he got out of office.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOr even if he didn't want to address the question of indictment, he could have said in no uncertain terms "The president obstructed justice" rather than the weaselly way he put it saying "We can not say the president didn't obstruct justice", which turns the whole notion of innocent until proven guilty on its head.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostUnfortunately, Mueller did not ask for your guidance in the matter.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostAnd he made it clear that there was not sufficient evidence to charge him with obstruction. Legally, that exonerates him. Politically, he can be impeached by Congress, that is true, and has never been questioned by any of us.
So you cant say trump is exonerared (and be truthful) All you can say is that he wasnt charged.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Imagine you're standing before a judge. The judge asks the prosecutor, "What evidence do you have to prove the defendant's guilt?" The prosecutor says, "Well, your honor, we can't actually prove his guilt, but we can't prove his innocence, either." Do you know what the judge's next words will be? It's very simple:
"Not guilty."Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNo, mueller specifically said he could NOT exonerate Trump because the evidence did not support that action. There are many reasons he might have chosen not to indict on obstruction. Whatever they were, in this case mueller made clear Trump being exonerated was not one of them.
So you cant say trump is exonerared (and be truthful) All you can say is that he wasnt charged.
Jim
2) Investigators and prosecutors don't "exonerate" - they either indict or not
C) Grand Jury testimony was involved - Grand Juries either "indict" or "no bill"
IV) While it's true that "exonerate" is not an applicable word here, the case now moves to the entirely political spectrum of the possibility of impeachment
And it will be interesting to see if "obstruction" charges can stick, given that the base charges (collusion) have been abandoned.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostImagine you're standing before a judge. The judge asks the prosecutor, "What evidence do you have to prove the defendant's guilt?" The prosecutor says, "Well, your honor, we can't actually prove his guilt, but we can't prove his innocence, either." Do you know what the judge's next words will be? It's very simple:
"Not guilty."
This line that he's innocent or exonerated is a lie. He tried to get people to do that which would have gotten him impeached or indicted, but they refused. In this case, so far, he's only surviving because there were enough people around him with enough guts to tell him no.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 04-19-2019, 01:08 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostA) Note that we have entirely abandoned "collusion", which was the big screamer for the past 2 years
Mueller's Report "makes clear that the vast amount of reporting by the mainstream outlets about Trump and Russia was on the mark"??? Not. Even. Remotely. Close. It was by and large diametrically opposed to reality with two full years of unremitting hysteria about collusion that simply never existed. "Bombshells" that consistently turned out to be fake. And speculation that was utterly baseless.
Just what color is the sky in this clown's world?
And he was hardly alone. Over on CNN (which featured panel after panel of scowling, angry "experts" who got everything wrong over the past couple of years), former Obama crony turned faux reporter (chief national security correspondent no less), Jim Sciutto boasted that the Mueller Report in some strange way "debunked all of Donald Trump's unfair attacks on the media." Really? I would love to hear him defend that remark.Last edited by rogue06; 04-19-2019, 01:05 PM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThis is not that scenario. They didnt go to trial. The fellow could be guilty as he can be, but the evidence isnt strong enough to convict, so they dont go to trial. In this case there are reasons other than the strength of the evidence, including the doj policy not to indict. So it is now up to congress to decide if the evidence is sufficient, or if it is worth it to oursue impeachment.
This line that he's innocent or exonerated is a lie. He tried to get people to do that which would have gotten him impeached or indicted, but they refused. In this case, so far, he's only surviving because there were enough people around him with enough guts to tell him no.
And while I'm sure that the Democrats would love to go down the impeachment rabbit trail, I'm not sure if they have the stomach for it. I mean, for 2+ years it has been nothing but "RUSSIAN COLLUSION RUSSIAN COLLUSION RUSSIAN COLLUSION!" and now all of a sudden they're saying, "Oh, wait, obstruction... "
The fact is that the President is not guilty of any underlying crime -- Mueller made this clear in his report -- and so we are obligated to see the President's conduct as that of a wrongfully accused man doing nothing more than protesting his own innocence. To put the report into its correct perspective, I suggest that any time it references Trump, you mentally replace it with the phrase "innocent man" so that it reads like this:
"The [innocent man] had been assured that the FBI had not opened an investigation of him personally. The [innocent man] deemed it critically important to make public that he was not under investigation, and he included that information in his termination letter to Comey after other efforts to have that information disclosed were unsuccessful.
"Soon after he fired Comey, however, the [innocent man] became aware that investigators were conducting an obstruction-of-justice inquiry into his own conduct. [...] The [innocent man] launched public attacks on the investigation and individuals involved in it who could possess evidence adverse to the [innocent man], while in private, the [innocent man] engaged in a series of targeted efforts to control the investigation. For instance, the [innocent man] attempted to remove the Special Counsel; [the innocent man] sought to have Attorney General Sessions unrecuse himself and limit the investigation [...] [the innocent man] used public forums to attack potential witnesses..."
Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat is silly Jim, Mueller certainly could have recommended to indict. Whether now (in office) or after he got out of office. And the fact is the Dems won't impeach, the will is not there. So you lose on both counts.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostActually seer, Mueller did not indict for the very reason stated. There is a law that implies that you can not indict a sitting president, and since you can not indict it would be unfair to charge, since the accused would not be able to defend himself. Mueller left it to Congress because in his interpretation of that law only Congress can decide weather or not to hold the president accountable by way of impeachment proceedings. The Dems may or may not decide to go the impeachment route for various reasons, including the unethical character of the republican majority in the Senate, in my opinion they should do it immediately before he does more damage to our democratic institutions. When the people vote the scoundrel out, he has many more criminal charges to face than the collusion and obstruction charges put forth in the Mueller report. That you guys still can't see, or refuse to see, what a autocratic scoundrel this guy is, is a reflection on you. Sad!
Nevertheless even if what you claim is true (even a stopped clock is occasionally though rarely right), nothing was stopping Mueller from recommending indicting Trump the moment he is out of office. So why do you suppose he didn't do that?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOr even if he didn't want to address the question of indictment, he could have said in no uncertain terms "The president obstructed justice" rather than the weaselly way he put it saying "We can not say the president didn't obstruct justice", which turns the whole notion of innocent until proven guilty on its head.
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