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Thread: The Mueller Report

  1. #101
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Birdbrain, read the report!
    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Which of course is a great big lie, which you would know if you actually read the report.
    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Again dummie, read the actual report and stop acting the fool.
    Can you truthfully say you've read the report, Jim?

    Just wondering.
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  2. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  3. #102
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    Coming to a conclusion in an investigation is not comming up empty handed. But perpaps you like to maintain a black and white idea about what the report reveals and the reason the investigation started in order to avoid the details not speaking in favour of Trump and his administration.
    Once again, Mueller said in no uncertain terms that the President was not guilty of any crimes. Therefore, Trump's every action must necessarily be interpreted as those of an innocent man. So let's look at some of the things detailed in Mueller's report and put them in their correct perspective:

    "The [innocent man] had been assured that the FBI had not opened an investigation of him personally. The [innocent man] deemed it critically important to make public that he was not under investigation, and he included that information in his termination letter to Comey after other efforts to have that information disclosed were unsuccessful.

    "Soon after he fired Comey, however, the [innocent man] became aware that investigators were conducting an obstruction-of-justice inquiry into his own conduct. [...] The [innocent man] launched public attacks on the investigation and individuals involved in it who could possess evidence adverse to the [innocent man], while in private, the [innocent man] engaged in a series of targeted efforts to control the investigation. For instance, the [innocent man] attempted to to remove the Special Counsel; [the innocent man] sought to have Attorney General Sessions unrecuse himself and limit the investigation [...] [the innocent man] used public forums to attack potential witnesses..."

    And so on, but I think you get the picture.

    As Sundance astutely predicted before the report was even released:

    Source: The Last Refuge

    The report will outline how many times terrible Trump lashed out over the past two years to his closest advisers about the damn “witchhunt”. It will outline every time he asked someone if he could do something to stop it… It will outline everything about how Trump wanted that damned ridiculous investigation to be done with… etc. etc. etc.

    However, in releasing so much granular activity the one thing the Mueller team and the media will forget is…. that’s exactly the behavior of a transparently innocent man.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ng-to-be-epic/

    © Copyright Original Source


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  4. #103
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    As for Mueller grumbling that the Presient's written response to his question was inadequate or insufficient or whatever, I wonder why Mueller didn't subpoena the President, or otherwise compel him to answer more questions, or even sit for a face-to-face interview?

    Oh, maybe it's because even after two-years of scrutinizing the President far beyond what just about anyone could bear, Mueller still had zero leverage over Trump.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #104
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Their effect was negligible.

    They spent less than what a restaurant chain does in running commercials in a large city -- with the lion's share coming after the election.
    According to the Mueller report:

    Dozens of IRA employees were responsible for operating accounts and personas on different U.S. social media platforms. The IRA referred to employees assigned to operate the social media accounts as "specialists". Starting as early as 2014, the IRA's U.S. operations included social media specialists focusing on Facebook, YouTube and Twitter. The IRA later added specialists who operated on Tumblr and Instagram accounts
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    In fact I think it was Bryon York who did some quick analysis and discovered that these guys spent all of a whopping $3200 in all of the battleground states. Not per state but total. That's equivalent to something like 1 maybe 2 late night commercials on a local station.

    In battleground states, according to Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Richard Burr, they spent a whopping $1979 on ads targeting Wisconsin. In Michigan the total spent was $823. And in Pennsylvania, it was $300.

    And for just a bit more context, when Colin Stretch, Facebook's general counsel, testified before the Senate about Russian interference in the election he said that they constituted "about four-thousands of one percent (0.004%) of content in News Feed, or approximately 1 out of 23,000 pieces of content."

    Further, again according to Facebook, most of the time they showed up in a person's news feed was after the election (with only 44% before the election and 56% after it) and 25% of them were seen by nobody at all.

    What's more, concerning these ads Facebook reported that, "the vast majority [of them] didn't specifically reference the U.S. presidential election, voting or a particular candidate."
    You don't provide many sources for the statements you make. Let's look again at the Mueller report:

    As early as March 2016, the IRA purchased advertisements that overtly opposed the Clinton Campaign. For example, on March 18, 2016, the IRA purchased an advertisement depicting candidate Clinton a caption that read in part, "if one day God les this liar enter the White House as president - that would be a real national tragedy.
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    According to the report the Russians knew they couldn't influence the election. What they hoped for was to stir up trouble for Hillary during her presidency. What they got was far beyond their wildest dreams what with the Democrats being the ones causing far more trouble than they could have ever hoped for.
    Again let's just look at what the report says:

    According to Facebook, in total the IRA-controlled accounts made over 80,000 posts before their deactivation in August 2017, and these posts reached at least 29 million U.S persons and 'may have reached an estimated 126 million people.'
    And this is only focusing on social media platform. They did far more than that.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  6. #105
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Once again, Mueller said in no uncertain terms that the President was not guilty of any crimes.
    That is actually not exactly what he said. Here is what he actually did say: "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,”.

    The report is quite clear on this: "Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
    Last edited by Charles; 04-19-2019 at 06:13 AM.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  7. #106
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    That is actually not exactly what he said. Here is what he actually did say: "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,”.
    From the report itself (and I'm sitting here looking at the PDF on my own computer; this isn't coming to me second hand): "In this investigation, the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference."

    Which brings us back around to the fact that Trump's every action with regards to the investigation must necessarily be interpreted through the lens of a wrongfully accused man doing nothing more than protesting his own innocence
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  8. #107
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    From the report itself (and I'm sitting here looking at the PDF on my own computer; this isn't coming to me second hand): "In this investigation, the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference."

    Which brings us back around to the fact that Trump's every action with regards to the investigation must necessarily be interpreted through the lens of a wrongfully accused man doing nothing more than protesting his own innocence
    You should think about not feeding the trolls. Charles couldn't care less what anyone says to him here; any response is an opportunity to provoke something further.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  9. Amen Zymologist amen'd this post.
  10. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    From the report itself (and I'm sitting here looking at the PDF on my own computer; this isn't coming to me second hand): "In this investigation, the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference."
    Here is from the report itself (and I'm sitting here looking at the PDF on my own computer; this isn't coming to me second hand):

    Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would state so. Based on the facts and applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Which brings us back around to the fact that Trump's every action with regards to the investigation must necessarily be interpreted through the lens of a wrongfully accused man doing nothing more than protesting his own innocence
    As you can see in the report this is not the conclusion in it. If you personally make your own conclusion you should not present those conclusions as the conclusions in the report.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  11. #109
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    That is actually not exactly what he said. Here is what he actually did say: "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,”.

    The report is quite clear on this: "Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
    Because a report can not judge on something like obstruction, which requires intent to commit a crime. And intent has to be judged indictable by a prosecutor, not an investigator.


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  12. #110
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    "...while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

    It's not a prosecutor's job to exonerate. They either indict (or recommend indictment), or they don't. So the takeaway here is "this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime". That's all the exoneration anybody could ever ask for.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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