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The Mueller Report

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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Yeah - typical trump mode. E.g. Trump is excused having had multiple affairs because not one of us has not looked at a women admiringly. But this is what is required with Trump. The bar is so low, any other apprach (like say - an appeal to the general moral standards most of us maintain easily) just won't work.

    Jim
    Way to move the goalposts, bro....
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      "He knows his y'all well."

      I love that phrase! I'm going to have to find ways to work it into my posts.
      y'all has been adopted in some Koine Greek lectures as a way of preserving the distinctions between "you (sgl)" and "you (pl)" - where that distinction is important for the understanding of the text.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
        Way to move the goalposts, bro....
        A person could be forgiven for complaining that Trump's opposition has acted to make such a low bar more acceptable than the alternatives that the opposition offers.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          y'all has been adopted in some Koine Greek lectures as a way of preserving the distinctions between "you (sgl)" and "you (pl)" - where that distinction is important for the understanding of the text.
          I'm sure that's how Jimmy intended it.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
            Way to move the goalposts, bro....
            only the overly literal minded without a capacity to think in the abstract could arrive at that conclusion.

            Do you really suppose my reference to Trump's adultery was meant to be a literal example of the point made ??




            Jim
            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-01-2019, 07:54 AM.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              only the overly literal minded without a capacity to think in the abstract could arrive at that conclusion.

              Do you really suppose my reference to Trumps adultery was meant to be a literal example of the point made ??




              Jim
              You took Mountain Man's response completely outside the context it was given in. That's not honest conversation. I think you're smart enough to know that, but evidently your hatred of Trump allows you to feel it's OK to compromise on certain behaviours.
              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                You took Mountain Man's response completely outside the context it was given in. That's not honest conversation. I think you're smart enough to know that, but evidently your hatred of Trump allows you to feel it's OK to compromise on certain behaviours.
                I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Let me spell it out for you in teeny tiny phrases:

                MM defends Trump obstructing Justice by claiming he did nothing wrong. My comment then is that is get's old watching MM defend Trump no matter what Trump does. No matter how vile. No matter how low. No matter that in ANY OTHER PERSON or POLITICAL figure he would be the first to write pages of scathing criticism of the very same actions.

                It's just a comment on MM's comment - not a 'reply' to it, not an attempt to 'move goal posts'. There is literally NOTHING Trump can do, up to and including shooting someone in broad daylight, that will evoke a critical response to Trump. So it is not in the slightest surprising that MM would characterize Trump's attempts at obstruction as 'doing nothing wrong'.

                I then listed the latest violation of basic humanity from the Trump administration where Pompeo reacts to accusations the North Korean Despot had the people that negotiated with our people in Hanoi executed or banished to concentration camps by comparing that act to 'Trump choosing whoever he wants to negotiate for him'.

                To spell that out in simple terms for those lured by Trump's Pied Piper's Pipe, Pompeo equated the execution of staff to 'choosing new staff'.

                So - will the Trumpians find that acceptable as well?

                Silence so far - which, BTW, is silent complicity ...


                Jim
                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-01-2019, 08:32 AM.
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Let me spell it out for you is teeny tiny phrases:

                  MM defends Trump obstructing Justice by claiming he did nothing wrong. My comment then is that is get's old watching MM defend Trump no matter what Trump does. No matter how vile. No matter how low. No matter that in ANY OTHER PERSON or POLITICAL figure he would be the first to write pages of scathing criticism of the very same actions.
                  The actual people who are in possession of all the facts, and are in position to decide that he did something criminal say that he didn't. They seem to be intimating that he might have done something underhanded, but not criminal. I conclude that he might have done something underhanded, but not criminal. Also, even the underhanded bit only relates to obstruction of justice bit - which, given that he was innocent of the crimes he was being investigated for (according to the investigators) would seem to be a reasonable response.

                  It's just a comment on MM's comment - not a 'reply' to it. There is literally NOTHING Trump can do, up to and including shooting someone in broad daylight, that will evoke a critical response to Trump. So it is not in the slightest surprising that MM would characterize Trump's attempts at obstruction as 'doing nothing wrong'.
                  You make the same claim. Trump is aware that to a handful of people, anything he does is acceptable - so are you.

                  I then listed the latest violation of basic humanity from the Trump administration where Pompeo reacts to accusations the North Korean Despot had the people that negotiated with our people in Hanoi executed or banished to concentration camps by comparing that act to 'Trump choosing whoever he wants to negotiate for him'.

                  To spell that out in simple terms for those lured by Trump's Pied Piper's Pipe, Pompeo equated the execution of staff to 'choosing new staff'.
                  Not that I know who Pompeo is ... but it doesn't seem from your comment that Trump had anything to do with Pompeo's decision. He could have compared himself with Mother Theresa: that would not make his action commensurate with anything that Mother Theresa approved, nor would it indicate that Mother Theresa had anything to do with the decisions that Pompeo made. Likewise, any number of atrocities have been conducted by people claiming to act for God - nothing in their actions makes that claim true.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    MM defends Trump obstructing Justice by claiming he did nothing wrong.
                    False. My "defense" is that there is no compelling evidence that Trump committed any crimes that could be reasonably interpreted as obstruction of justice.

                    Case in point:

                    WILLIAM BARR: Well let’s take the firing of Comey for example [...] One of the elements is that you have to show that the act objectively speaking will have the probable effect of obstructing a proceeding and we don’t believe that the firing of an agency head could be established as having the probable effect, objectively speaking, of sabotaging a proceeding. There was also we would have to prove corrupt intent, and the report itself points out that one of the likely motivations here was the president’s frustration with Comey saying something publicly and saying a different thing privately and refusing to correct the record. So that would not have been a corrupt intent. So for each of these episodes we thought long and hard about it, we looked at the facts and we didn’t feel the government could establish obstruction in these cases.

                    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...nd-transcript/

                    That same legal reasoning was applied to every episode described by Mueller; the questions were asked "Would this action have impeded the investigation?" and "Was there corrupt intent?" and in every case, the answers were no, and no.

                    So as a matter of an objective application of the law, there is no evidence that Trump did anything wrong.

                    Of course you are being anything but objective.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      False. My "defense" is that there is no compelling evidence that Trump committed any crimes that could be reasonably interpreted as obstruction of justice.

                      Case in point:

                      WILLIAM BARR: Well let’s take the firing of Comey for example [...] One of the elements is that you have to show that the act objectively speaking will have the probable effect of obstructing a proceeding and we don’t believe that the firing of an agency head could be established as having the probable effect, objectively speaking, of sabotaging a proceeding. There was also we would have to prove corrupt intent, and the report itself points out that one of the likely motivations here was the president’s frustration with Comey saying something publicly and saying a different thing privately and refusing to correct the record. So that would not have been a corrupt intent. So for each of these episodes we thought long and hard about it, we looked at the facts and we didn’t feel the government could establish obstruction in these cases.

                      https://theconservativetreehouse.com...nd-transcript/

                      That same legal reasoning was applied to every episode described by Mueller; the questions were asked "Would this action have impeded the investigation?" and "Was there corrupt intent?" and in every case, the answers were no, and no.

                      So as a matter of an objective application of the law, there is no evidence that Trump did anything wrong.

                      Of course you are being anything but objective.
                      Barr's comment is - in fact - a lie. And Barr is in fact the prima facia evidence that firing Comey was - in fact - an attempt to obstruct. He is the replacement for Sessions, a man who based on principle would not bend a knee to Trump on certain issues - especially as regards recusing himself in the investigation. Now that Sessions is gone, Trump has exactly what he wants - a man who will bow the knee to Trump.

                      Firing Comey was an attempt to control (i.e. obstruct) the investigation by (hopefully) getting someone else in there willing to pledge allegiance to Trump - something Comey refused to do.

                      To pretend that replacing people of principle in power with yes men in the same office is not a strategy for gaining control is lying - it's one of the most common strategies used. And historically we can see that is has a high probability of success - again just look at Barr himself as a replacement for Sessions. Attempts to gain control of or direct an investigation in one's favor is obstruction.


                      Jim
                      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-01-2019, 09:34 AM.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Barr's comment is - in fact - a lie. And Barr is in fact the prima facia evidence that firing Comey was - in fact - an attempt to obstruct. He is the replacement for Sessions, a man who based on principle would not bend a knee to Trump on certain issues - especially as regards recusing himself in the investigation. Now that Sessions is gone, Trump has exactly what he wants - a man who will bow the knee to Trump.

                        Firing Comey was an attempt to control (i.e. obstruct) the investigation by (hopefully) getting someone else in there willing to pledge allegiance to Trump - something Comey refused to do.

                        To pretend that replacing people of principle in power with yes men in the same office is not a strategy for gaining control is lying - it's one of the most common strategies used. Attempts to gain control of or direct an investigation in one's favor is obstruction.


                        Jim
                        Please tell me you're just parodying hyper-liberalism to illustrate how nutty the left really is.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Please tell me you're just parodying hyper-liberalism to illustrate how nutty the left really is.
                          Like i said, sonetimes you are funny MM.

                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • In another example of just how dirty the investigation really was, it turns out that Mueller falsified his filing against General Michael Flynn, deliberately leaving out critical context in an intercepted phonecall to give the false impression that the Trump administration was attempting to obstruct justice.

                            Notice how Mueller leaves out (via edits) the context of the call, and the important qualifier: “without you having to give up any confidential information.” Clearly Dowd does not want to interfere in Flynn’s cooperation with the special counsel, which is opposite to the twisted claim presented by Weissmann and Mueller’s report.

                            Full details and analysis at the link...

                            https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ipt-in-report/
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • That makes it seem that Mueller was in the anti-Trump faction.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                That makes it seem that Mueller was in the anti-Trump faction.
                                You think?
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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