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Thread: The Mueller Report

  1. #601
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Jim didn't tell MM to put him on ignore, it was MM's idea in the first place:
    It wasn't a threat. It was a joke.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.
  3. #602
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    MM - you know you were the one that offered for YOU to put ME on ignore. I never said I would put anyone on ignore. And I never asked anyone to put me on ignore.

    Is it really that hard to be truthful? Do you lack a conscience or something?


    Jim
    Come on, man, first of all I was joking. Then it was suggested by another poster that we mutually ignore each other which led to another joke on my part about you putting everybody on ignore, which is such an obviously absurd suggestion that I wouldn't have expected anybody to take it seriously. So you might want to tone down the hysterics just a tad.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #603
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I'm not playing any kind of game. Bottom line, Barr knew there was dissatisfaction from Mueller at the very least. The quote I gave, that Barr thought the memo came from Mueller's staff and not Mueller, even more so. I don't understand why you guys keep pushing the limits on this. There is no way he made a mistake when he answered no. He knew, one way or the other, that there was dissatisfaction with his summary coming out of Mueller's office. And he admitted he thought that came more from the staff than Mueller. The rest 'It depends on what the definition if is is" kind of stuff. A truthful answer would have been:

    "No-one actually spoke directly to me about it, but I was aware of the fact at least one or more people in Mueller's office were dissatisfied with my summary".

    Above is what the truth was. And that is not what he said. What he said was deceptive, misleading: IOW, a lie.

    Jim
    sounds to me like you are just ignoring any other possibility and doing some mind-reading tricks here to make it so that Barr has to be doing exactly what you believed in the first place. That is not being open minded or objective Jim. That is being stubbornly set in your POV. And then you continue to say you can't understand how anyone can have an opinion different than yours. Your way or the highway. You seem to have a problem with black and white thinking. With you always being the "white" and right and nothing can change your mind.

    You have a just-so explanation for everything.

  5. Amen The Pendragon, Cow Poke, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  6. #604
    tWebber The Pendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    This quote of Barr's indicates he should have answered yes to the full text of the question:


    Source: barr

    "You know, the letter's a bit snitty, and I think it was probably written by one of his staff people," Barr said.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Jim
    Sorry Oxmi,
    I had a longer post but lost it. Here is the just:

    In the frame of reference of AG Barr the question that was asked was asked before we knew about the letters and was asked in the context on the Press article that was talking about "Members of Mueller's team" (Which can be interrupted as subordinates) indicting that the question did not apply to Mueller. It is a valid to presume that AG Barr heard the Question as was "Did any of Mueller's subordinates in the article contact you about the summery being inaccurate?" that's how I understood the question, in contest of the Press article, and he answered that question truthfully.

    Tanks for the citation,
    As for the citation: The letter came from Mueller, so it does not matter that AG Barr suspects that it was written by his staff, he has to treat the letter as if it was written by Mueller, until its proven to be a forgery.

    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Keep that in mind when your kid answers a question like that. You can be comforted in knowing he learned from the best (liars) the US has to offer.

    Jim
    It looks like you’re being a little snitty yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    So Robert Mueller was not a member of his own team?
    So you got it right Tass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Barr's response was deliberately misleading and deceptive. In short, he lied. He knew full well that the Mueller team was unhappy with his 4 page Summery. Mueller wrote the first of his two letters about it the day after its release to express his concern. And yet Barr omitted this relevant fact.
    Now you take away the correct statement you started with and try to prove it wrong.

    As a team leader myself, if I was asked a similar question, I would not assume that the leader of the team was included as a team member.

    AB Barr did not omit a relevant fact, he just answered the question as a Manager.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Furthermore, Mueller's letter did not express concerns about the summary, which Mueller in a phonecall with AG Barr emphasized was neither inaccurate nor misleading, but with how the public perceived the investigation.

    So, no, Barr didn't lie.
    What MM said.

    Here is the problem with Nancy Pelosi and the Dems accusing AG Barr Lying to Congress, they have to prove that the question can be interrupted only one way.
    AG Barr only has to prove that there is “Possible Doubt”. As a Manager, I have given another interpretation of the question providing possible doubt. MM has also provided a counter to oxmi’s citation.

    This is a classic perjury trap, Mueller used it as the central crime for almost all of the Americans he indicted. Case in point:
    Papadopoulos was one of the only ones so far to be sentenced for lying to the FBI. The judge gave him a few weeks in jail. This is like a judge awarding $1 in a $100,000,000 to admonish the Law Suit as harassment.
    Last edited by The Pendragon; 05-03-2019 at 10:49 AM.

  7. #605
    tWebber The Pendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I'm not playing any kind of game. Bottom line, Barr knew there was dissatisfaction from Mueller at the very least. The quote I gave, that Barr thought the memo came from Mueller's staff and not Mueller, even more so. I don't understand why you guys keep pushing the limits on this. There is no way he made a mistake when he answered no. He knew, one way or the other, that there was dissatisfaction with his summary coming out of Mueller's office. And he admitted he thought that came more from the staff than Mueller. The rest 'It depends on what the definition if is is" kind of stuff. A truthful answer would have been:

    "No-one actually spoke directly to me about it, but I was aware of the fact at least one or more people in Mueller's office were dissatisfied with my summary".



    Above is what the truth was. And that is not what he said. What he said was deceptive, misleading: IOW, a lie.

    Jim
    We don't no whether Mueller was dissatisfied with the Barr summery, we only know that Mueller said it was accurate, and that he was dissatisfied with the way the Press portraying it. So in fact "No-one actually spoke directly to me about it" is also the truth. Not a deception or a lie, The lie is that Mueller though the summery was wrong.

    Mueller actually validated the summery and only asked that AG Barr release the 19 page summery that his team included with the report. Since AG Barr was going to release the report in a few weeks he decided not to release the report piecemeal and released the 19 page summery with the report.

    Another way of looking at it is that Mueller was not dissatisfied with Barr's summery, he was dissatisfied with the spin by the press. So again, it can be said that no one (not even Mueller) told Barr that they where dissatisfied with the summery. In this case, Oxmi's answer would be the lie and if he had answered it like that he could have been accused of lying to Congress. Classic perjury trap.
    Last edited by The Pendragon; 05-03-2019 at 11:32 AM.

  8. #606
    tWebber The Pendragon's Avatar
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    oxmixmudd,
    I remember you talking to us about how we are not being objective and looking at all the evidence. Several of the people that have had differing opinions then yourself have brought up other explanations to your narrow definition of the evidence. You, Tass and JimL have stuck to your narrow view of the evidence, over parsing the words down to the N'th degree, arguing the Mueller is a member of the team. The true answer is he is and he isn't depending on the circumstances and the context. I am willing to say that but you want to only use the definition that proves you point.

    Now before you say that I'm doing that also, I'm not, Under US law I only have to prove that the evidence can be taken in more then one way and may not point to guilt. AG Barr has been accused of a serious crime (according to the Dems). We do not have to prove that he is telling the truth we just need to dispute the claim he has lies and show that there are other ways to look at the issue. In fact I have given two scenarios other then your assertion one where he's Barr is telling the truth if he would have included Mueller or if he leaves him out, the other where Barr is lying if he includes Mueller in his answer. so I am being objective and looking and other options.

    Oxmi, Tass, and JimL you have to prove that there are no other ways to look at the evidence. So unless our interoperation of the evidence is proven to be false our assertion that AG Barr is telling the truth stands.

    Oxmi, Tass, and JimL have the harder task here, Sorry guys but that's the way it is.
    Last edited by The Pendragon; 05-03-2019 at 12:18 PM.

  9. #607
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    A new Gallup poll shows Donald Trump’s presidential job-approval rating hitting a new high of 46 percent. The survey was conducted from April 17 to April 30, almost entirely following the public release of the Mueller report on April 18. “The latest rating extends the upper limits of President Donald Trump’s narrow approval rating range by one percentage point, from his previous range of 35% to 45%,” Gallup notes.

    Trump hit his previous high of 45 percent in Gallup three times during his presidency: following his inauguration in January 2017, after his June 2018 meeting with Kim Jong Un, and after Attorney General Bill Barr released his letter summarizing the Mueller report in March 2019.

    On one hand, polling below 50 percent still isn’t a good place to be for an incumbent, especially given the strong economy, and the president currently trails Joe Biden by 7 points and Bernie Sanders by 3 points in the RealClearPolitics average of polls. On the other hand, Barack Obama’s job-approval rating was 44 percent in Gallup polling at the same point in his presidency (April 2011), and he still managed to find a way to win re-election in 2012
    .

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...of-46-percent/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  10. #608
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Breaking news! The ever reliable Michael Wolff reports that Mueller filed an indictment for obstruction against Trump!

    "Mueller’s office drew up a three-count outline of the president’s alleged abuses, under the title ‘United States of America against Donald J Trump, Defendant," says Wolff.

    And now, the rest of the story...

    Source: Mueller Team Shoots Down Michael Wolff’s Latest Claims of Trump Indictment Draft Document

    The authenticity of a new claim by author Michael Wolff there was a draft indictment of President Donald J. Trump sitting on Mueller’s desk for a year has been flatly denied by the spokesman for Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

    “The documents that you’ve described do not exist,” Peter Carr, Mueller’s spokesman, told the Guardian in response to a leaked copy of Wolff’s new forthcoming book, Siege: Trump Under Fire.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...raft-document/

    © Copyright Original Source

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #609
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Boy, the libs are having a fit. This is going to get ugly real quick.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  12. #610
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Boy, the libs are having a fit. This is going to get ugly real quick.
    What are they saying?

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