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Is suicide a sin if the person is not mentally competent to be responsible?

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  • #16
    Something is only a sin if the person knowingly does wrong. If someone is so mentally far gone that they genuinely don't realize that it's wrong to kill yourself, or they have no sense of what they're doing, then I don't think God would hold that against them.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-26-2019, 01:27 PM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
      People that commit suicide are usually miserable or suffering from one thing or another and would rather not be in such a situation in which they would even consider such a solution as killing themselves. Calling it a sin as if they are doing something that they desire for themselves in disobedience of a Deity is wrong. It's not something that they actually desire for themselves. The sin is whatever it was that brought them to that point in the first place whether it be due to themselves, {the circumstances of their lives, to nature, or to god.} Ultimately, whether it is a sin or not a sin in the sense of it being a good or a bad thing, no one can say, because it's personal, and no one will ever know, even the victim themselves will never know, if it was in the their best interests or not to end their lives at that point. How can putting an end to suffering be called a sin? It could just as soon be called merciful.
      My dad once described suicide as the ultimate act of selfishness, because it's a final and irreversible act that shows a complete disregard for how it might affect anybody else.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        My dad once described suicide as the ultimate act of selfishness, because it's a final and irreversible act that shows a complete disregard for how it might affect anybody else.
        I would agree, EXCEPT where it was actually mental illness, and the person had no such intent (like you already referenced).
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          I very much disagree with your conclusions. Your neglecting the issue of mental illness. Suicide cannot be generalized as a sin, nor a merciful conclusion in most cases.
          Mental illness is is no different than physical illness, the suffering can be just as bad. Again, people don't commit suicide because they want to die, they commit suicide because they are in pain and come to see suicide as a last resort. At any rate, no one can say that it is wrong, or that it is a sin, because no one else is in the shoes if the victim. Some times people just want to end their suffering, but more often than not, suicide, or attempted suicide, is a call for help from those who know of no other way to get help. But why on earth would anyone believe that ones final solution to their suffering to be a sin? They are not fulfilling a desire, they don't want to die, they are just trying to put an end to their suffering in the only way they believe they can.
          Last edited by JimL; 04-26-2019, 07:12 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            My dad once described suicide as the ultimate act of selfishness,
            That's about the silliest thig I ever heard. Telling the person that is suffering that they a selfish because they choose to no longer suffer.


            because it's a final and irreversible act that shows a complete disregard for how it might affect anybody else.
            When you are suffering bad enough to want to end it all, then you can talk about how much you take others into consideration.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              That's about the silliest thig I ever heard. Telling the person that is suffering that they a selfish because they choose to no longer suffer.
              A) He never said anything about telling the person who is suffering anything at all. Many times, we don't know anything about this until they're already dead.
              2) Not all suicides are because of unbearable pain. There are actually suicides committed out of spite, defiance, hatred, drama...

              source
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                That's about the silliest thig I ever heard. Telling the person that is suffering that they a selfish because they choose to no longer suffer.



                When you are suffering bad enough to want to end it all, then you can talk about how much you take others into consideration.
                Right, and where's his concern for the family and friends who will have to spend the rest of their life dealing with the heartache of knowing that someone they loved killed himself? It's one of the most purely selfish acts imaginable.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  A) He never said anything about telling the person who is suffering anything at all. Many times, we don't know anything about this until they're already dead.
                  He's telling them now, while their alive, that alleviating their own suffering is selfish because they aren't taking others feelings into consideration.

                  2) Not all suicides are because of unbearable pain. There are actually suicides committed out of spite, defiance, hatred, drama...

                  source
                  Some perhaps, but not most, and even those are a call for help. No sane person is going to kill themselves simply out of spite or hatred etc. People don't want to die. There is obviously a lot more going on there than meets the eye in such cases.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Right, and where's his concern for the family and friends who will have to spend the rest of their life dealing with the heartache of knowing that someone they loved killed himself? It's one of the most purely selfish acts imaginable.
                    When you are in suffering severely enough to want to take your own life, then tell us how much the feelings of others concern you.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                      When you are in suffering severely enough to want to take your own life, then tell us how much the feelings of others concern you.
                      Exactly. You're only thinking of yourself with no regard for others. That is the very definition of selfishness.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        He's telling them now, while their alive, that alleviating their own suffering is selfish because they aren't taking others feelings into consideration.


                        Some perhaps, but not most, and even those are a call for help. No sane person is going to kill themselves simply out of spite or hatred etc. People don't want to die. There is obviously a lot more going on there than meets the eye in such cases.
                        I see you're as good an expert on this as you are on the law... and grammar.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          A)
                          2) Not all suicides are because of unbearable pain. There are actually suicides committed out of spite, defiance, hatred, drama...

                          source
                          Such suicides are accidental. The intention is to manipulate, not to actually die.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Such suicides are accidental. The intention is to manipulate, not to actually die.
                            In many cases, yes, but not always.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              A) He never said anything about telling the person who is suffering anything at all. Many times, we don't know anything about this until they're already dead.
                              2) Not all suicides are because of unbearable pain. There are actually suicides committed out of spite, defiance, hatred, drama...

                              source
                              . . . and mental illness.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Mental illness is is no different than physical illness, the suffering can be just as bad. Again, people don't commit suicide because they want to die, they commit suicide because they are in pain and come to see suicide as a last resort. At any rate, no one can say that it is wrong, or that it is a sin, because no one else is in the shoes if the victim. Some times people just want to end their suffering, but more often than not, suicide, or attempted suicide, is a call for help from those who know of no other way to get help. But why on earth would anyone believe that ones final solution to their suffering to be a sin? They are not fulfilling a desire, they don't want to die, they are just trying to put an end to their suffering in the only way they believe they can.
                                I believe there is too much rationalization here of hypothetical reasons why the mental illness results in suicide. One of the problems with some kinds of mental illness is the victims of suicide most often cannot rationalize the reasons for commiting suicide as you do above.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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