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Trump To Use Executive Privilege?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    That's correct, and he can't claim executive priviledge in order to obstruct Congressional oversight into his administration.
    Sure he can.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      That's correct, and he can't claim executive priviledge in order to obstruct Congressional oversight into his administration.
      Of course he can Jim, that is separation of powers. Congress does not get to run endless witch hunts against the President. And remember Jim you said you would accept the findings of Mueller report as I did. And the Mueller report did not find any prosecutable offense.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Of course he can Jim, that is separation of powers. Congress does not get to run endless witch hunts against the President. And remember Jim you said you would accept the findings of Mueller report as I did. And the Mueller report did not find any prosecutable offense.
        The latest liberal narrative is that Mueller really did find the smoking gun but wasn't allowed to act on it and told Congress with a wink and nod to take up the case for him. Of course that narrative ignores the fact that Mueller plainly said that the President committed no crimes leaving Congress with no grounds to pursue impeachment.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Sure he can.
          Well, he can attempt to do it in order to stall the process, but the courts, to Trumps dismay, will determine if he actually has the authority to get away with it.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Of course he can Jim, that is separation of powers. Congress does not get to run endless witch hunts against the President. And remember Jim you said you would accept the findings of Mueller report as I did. And the Mueller report did not find any prosecutable offense.
            First off, no he can't, and second, the alledged doesn't get to decide if an investigation into himself is a witch hunt and therefore put an end to it. As for the investigation itself, I accept the Mueller report fully, what I don't accept is Trumps hand picked shills bogus spin on it. There are at least 12 obvious cases of Trumps obstruction which you guys are in denial about, there is also the obvious conspiracy of P Manafort who gave a Russian operative both the Trump campaigns polling data and geographical targeting data not to mention so much more in the report. Perhaps if you got your heads out of the GOP propaganda bubble once in a while you'd be able to see the facts. But probably not!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              The latest liberal narrative is that Mueller really did find the smoking gun but wasn't allowed to act on it and told Congress with a wink and nod to take up the case for him. Of course that narrative ignores the fact that Mueller plainly said that the President committed no crimes leaving Congress with no grounds to pursue impeachment.
              Wrong again MM. What Mueller did was to gather the info for Congress to decide on since he hasn't the ability to indict himself. Atty Gen. Barr, Trumps front man, stepped in and tried to end it with his lies concerning the report, and of course you fell for it. Don't be afraid of the truth MM!
              Last edited by JimL; 04-27-2019, 10:08 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                First off, no he can't, and second, the alledged doesn't get to decide if an investigation into himself is a witch hunt and therefore put an end to it. As for the investigation itself, I accept the Mueller report fully, what I don't accept is Trumps hand picked shills bogus spin on it. There are at least 12 obvious cases of Trumps obstruction which you guys are in denial about, there is also the obvious conspiracy of P Manafort who gave a Russian operative both the Trump campaigns polling data and geographical targeting data not to mention so much more in the report. Perhaps if you got your heads out of the GOP propaganda bubble once in a while you'd be able to see the facts. But probably not!
                Like I said Jim Trump will assert executive privilege, and then the courts will decide. And if there are 12 obvious cases of obstruction, then the Dems should start the impeachment process right now.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Like I said Jim Trump will assert executive privilege, and then the courts will decide. And if there are 12 obvious cases of obstruction, then the Dems should start the impeachment process right now.
                  No, they need to have hearings and the public testimony of the witnesses in order to dispell the lies that Trumps appointed hack told to those American people who are to naive to recognise a political hack job when they see one. That means you, seer. What are you afraid of? Let me ask you this concerning conspiracy. If a manager of Trumps campaign gives the campaigns polling data and geographical targeting data to a Russian operative, would you call that conspiracy, or not?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                    Well, he can attempt to do it in order to stall the process, but the courts, to Trumps dismay, will determine if he actually has the authority to get away with it.
                    I have a feeling you're going to be as right about this as you were about the Mueller investigation and Hillary's chances of winning the election.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      No, they need to have hearings and the public testimony of the witnesses in order to dispell the lies that Trumps appointed hack told to those American people who are to naive to recognise a political hack job when they see one. That means you, seer. What are you afraid of? Let me ask you this concerning conspiracy. If a manager of Trumps campaign gives the campaigns polling data and geographical targeting data to a Russian operative, would you call that conspiracy, or not?
                      Jim you said there were 12 obvious cases of obstruction so there is no need for your dog and pony show, start the impeachment process. And did the Mueller report say that the Manafort thing was conspiracy?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Jim you said there were 12 obvious cases of obstruction so there is no need for your dog and pony show, start the impeachment process. And did the Mueller report say that the Manafort thing was conspiracy?
                        It's not a dog and pony show, that's just what people who fear the truth coming to light call it. As far as the Manafort conspiracy is concerned, I asked you a hypothetical. It seems you are afraid to give an honest answer?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          It's not a dog and pony show, that's just what people who fear the truth coming to light call it. As far as the Manafort conspiracy is concerned, I asked you a hypothetical. It seems you are afraid to give an honest answer?
                          Jim I have no idea what the backstory is with the Manafort thing is, but if it was a conspiracy don't you think Mueller would have charged him with conspiracy? And fear what, the report is there for all to read. Do you really think these jokers in congress are able to find more than Mueller? This isn't about finding truth Jim, it is about making Trump look bad until the next election. But like said, if these obstruction cases are so obvious then the Dems need to start impeachment, now. But you and I know they don't have the guts.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Jim I have no idea what the backstory is with the Manafort thing is, but if it was a conspiracy don't you think Mueller would have charged him with conspiracy? And fear what, the report is there for all to read. Do you really think these jokers in congress are able to find more than Mueller? This isn't about finding truth Jim, it is about making Trump look bad until the next election. But like said, if these obstruction cases are so obvious then the Dems need to start impeachment, now. But you and I know they don't have the guts.
                            The Democrat party is well aware what it will cost them politically if they go for impeachment and it blows up in their face. It's why they're gearing up for months of continuing investigations, because they're desperate to maintain the false "cloud of suspicion" over Trump through the 2020 campaign season. Of course Trump is unlikely to just sit back and let it happen, and there are indications that he and his legal team have an offensive game plan that's going to take the fight to the Democrats
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              No, Carp I don't see what Congress is going to get out of these witnesses that Mueller didn't. It is all about keeping the political theater going until the next election, nothing more.
                              Ahh... Congress. I missed that part. I was talking about Mueller. With relation to the Mueller report, once Congress has seen the entire unredacted report, I am close to agreeing with you. Congressional investigations on those issues is mostly political theater. Of course, although we keep comparing impeachment to indictment, they are actually not the same. Historically, impeachment has been used for political issues, and impeachment is preceded by some amount of investigation, so I applaud the house continuing to investigate and unearth anything that shines a light on this horrendous administration. And Mueller's investigation did not touch on a range of issues that I believe require investigation and Congress should investigate.

                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Who says? And yes you have the amendment process as part of the blueprint.
                              Given your line of work, Seer, I would think you would understand the difference. An architecture provides an overall framework. A blueprint gets into the nitty gritty. You would turn to the architectural specification to determine if the building is "green." You would turn to the blueprints to determine where the wires are located, what type is to be installed, and what they run past. For the government, the constitution provides the framework. Government cannot impede in freedom of speech. The legal code provides the blueprint, detailing what does and does not constitute freedom of speech. And so forth. The amendments make it possible to extend the framework, or even alter it. They don't provide the detail (for the most part - there are a few exceptions).

                              AFAIK, this is a pretty basic principle about the workings of our government. I guess I'm a bit surprised that you think otherwise.

                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              That is true the DOJ can investigate wrong doing in Congress, but that is not determined by the President. The bottom line is that Congress can investigate the President, he can not investigate the Congress.
                              Seer, the DOJ falls within the Executive Branch. Do you REALLY think the president cannot and does not pick up the phone and discuss direction with the AG, or that the subject does not come up in the cabinet? And you will note that the president is empowered to appoint special counsel: See Grant/Henderson, Garfield/Cook, Coolidge/Roberts, Truman/Morris, etc. Yes, the Ethics in Government Act made some adjustments to how special counsel or special prosecutors were selected, but I do not find anywhere that it bars the president from requesting an appointment.

                              But there is a significant difference between the branches. The executive is headed by one person. Congress is a large group comprising (primarily) two distinct and opposing parties. It is far more likely that a single person, who picks his/her staff/team, is going to go afoul of the law than it is that a group of 400+ people from opposing parties are going to conspire to do so. So it makes a certain amount of sense that the framers would have given Congress more oversight of the executive than the executive was given oversight of Congress.

                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Really, did you see what Lincoln and Jackson did? They often ignored the court.
                              And this changes what I said exactly how?
                              Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-27-2019, 01:30 PM.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Nope. An action is either executive privilege, or it isn't. If Trump claims executive privilege when he shouldn't then that's another matter.
                                So you're saying:

                                "And a president who appropriately invokes his Constitutional power of executive privilege can not be accused of, or charged with, undermining or obstructing an investigation."

                                And I am saying "a president who inappropiately invokes his Constitutional power of executive privilege can possibly be accused of, or charged with, undermining or obstructing an investigation"

                                Since you left out "appropriately," I was noting that your statement was too broad and all-inclusive. Executive privilege is indeed a constitutionally provided-for privilege, AFAIK. It can be (and sometimes is) misused.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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