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Thread: Standing up for the poor invites the Antichrist?

  1. #11
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    My grandmother is openly racist and justifies it solely on religious grounds. She says she learned it in church, and her lifelong denomination is SBC.
    Yeah, because of the foundational principle of "autonomy of the local church", SBC churches come in all flavors, depending on their local leadership. A congregation is free to choose their own pastor, so if you have a 'controlling faction', they can pretty much dictate the future of the church (and its theology/philosophy) by the kind of pastor they call.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. #12
    tWebber ReformedApologist's Avatar
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    As a Southern Baptist myself, I am irritated at some of the attitudes people have towards the SBC concerning that. They accuse people about not seeing the gospel message as important, they call anyone who stands up for social justice as a Marxist and other slanderous names. Jesus did say we are to preach the gospel, but we also are called to alleviate sufferings of the poor when we are able (Proverbs 31:8-9; Galatians 2:10; James 2:2-4; Matthew 25:35-40; 1st John 3:17-18). Some people just want to pit one against the other for some reason.

  3. Amen KingsGambit, The Remonstrant, Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  4. #13
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I think it's reflecting a lot of what some of us in SBC leadership have been experiencing....

    There was a time when I kinda thought that the "social gospel" churches were a bunch of liberals straying from the Truth, and it was critical to "stay true to the Word"....

    Over the last 20 or 30 years, I became more and more convinced that, in our case, it doesn't have to be an "either or". We can be 'True to the Word', *AND* do the "social gospel stuff". That's why my church has a semi-annual car clinic for people who need that kind of help, and the Jobs for Life program, and the food pantry...

    So, we preach the Gospel without apology, and stay involved in the community in any way that makes sense.
    That's pretty much my take. The church is to take care of those in need whether rich or poor or middle class. Visit the elderly, help out widows and orphans, feed the hungry. The bible commands us to do this. But what people today call "social justice" is more about justifying sinfulness or even just silly stuff, like protesting milk and eggs.

    And WE are supposed to be doing it voluntarily, out of love, not because we are being forced to do it, or our money is taken away from us to be done by others.
    Last edited by Sparko; 04-29-2019 at 07:47 AM.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    That's pretty much my take. The church is to take care of those in need whether rich or poor or middle class. Visit the elderly, help out widows and orphans, feed the hungry. The bible commands us to do this. But what people today call "social justice" is more about justifying sinfulness or even just silly stuff, like protesting milk and eggs.

    And WE are supposed to be doing it voluntarily, out of love, not because we are being forced to do it, or our money is taken away from us to be done by others.
    On the same hand, we need to be good stewards with God's money, so that doesn't mean 'enabling' the poor who will not work. There are actually biblical commands forbidding that.

    As we've discussed in the past, I'd rather 'accidentally' help somebody who doesn't deserve it, than accidentally not help somebody who really needs it. A little due diligence is key.

    (Good to see you back in the saddle, even though you're not sitting up exactly straight yet )
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  6. #15
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    But what people today call "social justice" is more about justifying sinfulness or even just silly stuff, like protesting milk and eggs.
    .
    I specifically said I didn't have that in mind, though.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformedApologist View Post
    As a Southern Baptist myself, I am irritated at some of the attitudes people have towards the SBC concerning that. They accuse people about not seeing the gospel message as important, they call anyone who stands up for social justice as a Marxist and other slanderous names. Jesus did say we are to preach the gospel, but we also are called to alleviate sufferings of the poor when we are able (Proverbs 31:8-9; Galatians 2:10; James 2:2-4; Matthew 25:35-40; 1st John 3:17-18). Some people just want to pit one against the other for some reason.
    John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”
    1 John 3:16 By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.If you lavish attention on the man in fine clothes and say, “Here is a seat of honor,” but say to the poor man “You must stand,” or, “Sit at my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves
    Matthew 25:40 whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
    1 John 3:17 we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need ...

    Is some sort of pattern pattern apparent here?
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    My perception is that here in the U.S., "social justice" largely involves efforts to punish some so-called "privileged" classes to benefit other supposedly "victimized" classes.

    Because this involves punishing people who may in fact be guilty of nothing harmful toward the alleged victims, and doing so with no due process, I generally view "social justice" as the exact opposite of ACTUAL justice.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  9. Amen Joel amen'd this post.
  10. #18
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I specifically said I didn't have that in mind, though.
    I was commenting on Cow Poke's post not yours.

    I was saying how it is easy to mix up the meanings. A Christian can talk about Social Justice and mean charity and love your neighbor, and someone else can be meaning don't eat chickens.

  11. #19
    tWebber
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    For a lot of people, the term "social justice" itself is the issue, causing an automatic negative reaction. I think the phrase causes confusion at best and is best abandoned. It's never more than hand-wavingly defined. As NorrinRadd said, it's often used to refer to things that are actually injustice. And think it is a serious mistake to conflate charity with justice.

  12. #20
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I had an exchange with another Christian today and I'm not sure why, but I'm really upset about this.

    This person was ranting about how the Southern Baptist Convention had been taken over by socialists pushing social justice. My stance is that the Bible does call for social justice - Micah and Amos specifically focused on the issue. This isn't "social justice" in the same sense that most modern liberals meant, but it does mean looking out for the poor and their being exploited, and it does mean looking out for widows in need. I made this point, making clear that I was not interested in modern liberalism's social justice.

    The response? These passages aren't really about social justice, they're about obeying God, and they're only there in the first place because Israel was a theocracy. Paul never mentions social justice, therefore, Christians must stay away from it, and in fact, involvement in any social justice leads to the one world government of Romans 13 and invites the Antichrist.
    I will agree with the other person that a Christian should practice social justice because it is the command of God. On the other hand, I agree with your definition of social justice. For me as a Christian, how society defines social justice is a mixed bag. On some issues, I think they're right and other issues I think their position is anti-Christian.

    I don't like the other's person position that these are only in the Bible because Israel is a theocracy. There is too much New Testament that indicates otherwise. On the other hand, there are days I think Christians take care of those in society at the expense of fellow church members.

    Any hand you use, this is a tough issue.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

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