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Thread: Pro-choice distortion

  1. #361
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tabibito
    Yes to the first, no to the second. I'll work against a person being duped if that person broaches the subject ... otherwise it is a no-go zone.
    I don't know what the latter statement is - but are you seriously claiming that the pro-life group does not use inflammatory language? Perhaps you think you are not doing so?
    I choose to express my opinions in a non-confrontational manner. When it comes down to cases, in an environment where such discussions are appropriate, I'll discuss the issues involved by asking (admittedly leading) questions. If it becomes necessary, that discussion will involve a bit of sex ed - including pointing out the unreliability of coitus-interruptus if that too is deemed appropriate. Having noted that activism doesn't promote any sort of resolution, I leave activism to the social justice warriors. What the pro-life group has to say and might do is no greater interest to me than are the words and actions of the pro-choice group. As to inflammatory language ... pointing out facts is inflammatory. The best I can do is to avoid providing legitimate excuses to those who seek occasion to become offended.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  2. #362
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Here's exactly what you said...

    Try that in court some day. "But, yer honor --- he was a low life scumbag jackass, not a human being!"

    (That's how Islam extremists justify killing Jews, by the way)

    (Come to think of it, I think Texas is the only state in the Union where an acceptable defense for homicide is "Yer Honor - he just needed killin'!")
    So - you quoted me correctly - but the statement, "what you've done, and I'm not sure you even recognize it, is justifying the one side as being innocent of the killing of babies on the grounds that they sincerely believe they're not killing human beings," is incorrect.

    I believe the growing fetus is a human being. Ergo, I believe they are killing children and are not "innocent." But I do also know that people can sometimes do bad things without malice or intent to do harm. So I set aside what I think in order to try and see the position from their side. That looks like this:

    If I do not believe the fetus is a living human being, then there is no killing involved. What remains is a large group of people trying to impose their medical/religious beliefs on adult women who are not criminals using the government as their agency for doing so. Since I honestly believe there is no life involved, the medical rights of the woman are inviolate, and I end up being "pro-choice."


    I don't agree with them. I don't want abortion to continue. But I make an effort to understand them. Once I understand them, I ask myself, "what is the likelihood that I am going to convince them it is actually a life?" History tells me that there are 50 years of that war behind us with NO advancement on that front, so the most likely thing is that continuing that war will produce exactly the same result for the next 50 years - with millions more deaths.

    So my choice is simple:

    1) Continue to fight the "it's a life" battle, knowing it is futile but needing to be "right" and to "win," and condemn countless millions to death over the next 50 years.
    2) Try to find another way

    I vote for 2.

    Apparently - you vote for 1.

    Hence my observations.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-14-2019 at 11:55 AM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  3. #363
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    I choose to express my opinions in a non-confrontational manner. When it comes down to cases, in an environment where such discussions are appropriate, I'll discuss the issues involved by asking (admittedly leading) questions. If it becomes necessary, that discussion will involve a bit of sex ed - including pointing out the unreliability of coitus-interruptus if that too is deemed appropriate. Having noted that activism doesn't promote any sort of resolution, I leave activism to the social justice warriors. What the pro-life group has to say and might do is no greater interest to me than are the words and actions of the pro-choice group. As to inflammatory language ... pointing out facts is inflammatory. The best I can do is to avoid providing legitimate excuses to those who seek occasion to become offended.
    It is possible that I am simply imposing on you statements that have been made by others. If you avoid inflammatory language, then I tip my hat to you. That is not the norm for many (most?) on the "pro-life" or "pro-choice" sides of the battle.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  4. #364
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Stay out of the battles, act as an agent provocateur, suborn them as have been deceived one or two at a time. No outrage, no judgemental attitude. Until I find an effective way to do things on a broader field, that is the best I can manage.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  5. #365
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Stay out of the battles, act as an agent provocateur, suborn them as have been deceived one or two at a time. No outrage, no judgemental attitude. Until I find an effective way to do things on a broader field, that is the best I can manage.


    But this is a good place to vent - debate forums are not the same as real life situations.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  6. #366
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Stay out of the battles, act as an agent provocateur, suborn them as have been deceived one or two at a time. No outrage, no judgemental attitude. Until I find an effective way to do things on a broader field, that is the best I can manage.
    If that is truly your approach - then you are one of the rare 1%. If we could get more to put down the battle tools - we might actually make progress more systemically.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  7. #367
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Oh, the Iron E!
    [*Comes running down the hall into the room. Jumps into chair in front of the monitor and quickly posts the following*]






















    Pant! pant! pant!

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  8. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  9. #368
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    So - you quoted me correctly -
    Of course I did! I used the quote function!

    but the statement, "what you've done, and I'm not sure you even recognize it, is justifying the one side as being innocent of the killing of babies on the grounds that they sincerely believe they're not killing human beings," is incorrect.
    Ah, so to what grounds would you like to shift to justify their part of the battle? And do withdraw that "reason"?

    I believe the growing fetus is a human being. Ergo, I believe they are killing children and are not "innocent."
    You've made progress since your "blob of tissue" grenades.

    But I do also know that people can sometimes do bad things without malice or intent to do harm. So I set aside what I think in order to try and see the position from their side. That looks like this:
    But you have no problem ascribing to me a position that I do not hold - that abortion workers are "bad people" - your words.

    If I do not believe the fetus is a living human being, then there is no killing involved.
    No - stop right there.

    If an Islamist extremists believes that Jews are "monkeys and pigs", then there is no killing, right? Because they don't believe Jews are human beings.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. #369
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    So my choice is simple:

    1) Continue to fight the "it's a life" battle, knowing it is futile but needing to be "right" and to "win," and condemn countless millions to death over the next 50 years.
    2) Try to find another way

    I vote for 2.

    Apparently - you vote for 1.

    Hence my observations.
    And, once again, you're doing that mind reader thing you pretend to hate - AND - make a goofy statement in the process. How does "fighting for the ones who can not defend themselves" condemn millions to death over the next 50 years, Mr. Chamberlain? AND, you're building a false dichotomy.

    Three strikes - you're OUTTA HERE!

    Carpe, you rag on me for my "bad analogies", yet you come up with this horrible analogy to "the Troubles" of Northern Ireland.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. #370
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    This is just carp's way of denouncing us while pretending to have the high ground, while not actually having any ground.


    Carp - you guys are bad, continuing the war. we need to find a solution.

    us - what's your solution?

    Carp - I don't have one but you guys are bad.

  12. Amen QuantaFille amen'd this post.

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