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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    "They" need to get their facts straight. It doesn't suddenly become a human being at point X, and they won't ever be willing to agree on a specific point in the 9 months (or more).
    To which they will respond "you need to get your facts straight" - and the war will go on.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Almost stubborn as I would be if you wanted to kill both of my daughters, and wanted me to compromise by letting you kill only one.

    Prove me wrong. What's the compromise?
    I have already responded to this multiple times. You're not listening/reading and are caught up in your own little closed world. Repeating it yet again is not going to change that. SO I guess I'll have to acknowledge you're one of the 99% and move on. I'll leave the last word to you, unless you can actually respond to what I am saying instead of reacting to what I am saying.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Nor am I! Now would you kindly stop repeating this lie?
      It's not a lie, Carpe, if I really believe it, and at this point, I really do. I don't think you're really neutral. I'm entitled to my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.

      I actually didn't say it was easy - at any point.
      Which, my opinion, is why you love this fight.

      If I stop - then there is no one here to call this out.
      Well, we can all see you're doing an incredibly effective job!

      No one is forcing you to post, CP.
      You don't think I KNOW that, Carpe? Now you're just being a jerk.

      Take your hands away from the keyboard - visit another thread - and I won't be responding to you.
      You're not my boss, Carpe, and I really don't need your arrogant condescending attitude. You can play that silly game AGAIN, but I'll post when and where I want to post, and if you don't want to respond, don't. But you won't be able to resist, because, IMOHBAO, that's what you're all about. I think you love the fight.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        That is why solutions must engage BEFORE the conflict arises. Once there is a pregnancy - the conflict is inevitable. The only option I can think of is to make carry/adopt more attractive than abort.
        But that's just it: How would you convince them that preventing pregnancy is even a worthy goal when abortion is already a perfectly viable and morally acceptable solution in their minds?

        Let's put it like this...

        You: "Let's work together to prevent unwanted pregnancies in order to reduce the number of abortions."

        Them: [blank stare] "Why would we want to reduce the number of abortions?"

        Remember, you're talking to people who don't consider abortion to be any different than an appendectomy.

        Now what?
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          But that's just it: How would you convince them that preventing pregnancy is even a worthy goal when abortion is already a perfectly viable and morally acceptable solution in their minds?

          Let's put it like this...

          You: "Let's work together to prevent unwanted pregnancies in order to reduce the number of abortions."

          Them: [blank stare] "Why would we want to reduce the number of abortions?"

          Remember, you're talking to people who don't consider abortion to be any different than an appendectomy.

          Now what?
          That's too broad of a brush. There are no doubt some people who feel that way, but I've talked to quite a few pro-choice people who have agonized over their decision, upto and after the event. I've talked to quite a few who see it as a necessary evil barring any other solutions.
          "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
          Hear my cry, hear my shout,
          Save me, save me"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            But that's just it: How would you convince them that preventing pregnancy is even a worthy goal when abortion is already a perfectly viable and morally acceptable solution in their minds?
            You start by acknowledging their concerns....

            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Let's put it like this...

            You: "Let's work together to prevent unwanted pregnancies in order to reduce the number of abortions."

            Them: [blank stare] "Why would we want to reduce the number of abortions?"

            Remember, you're talking to people who don't consider abortion to be any different than an appendectomy.

            Now what?
            No - you start the way I suggested in a previous post - by acknowledging their concerns. By listening to their arguments without assuming "they're wrong!" and "they're bad." ANd then by putting forward a request to work together in a way that will address the concerns of BOTH sides.

            Remember - there is common ground - we actually DO share the same moral framework. And there ARE strategies for reducing abortions. Frankly, I don't know a single pro-choicer that is "pro-abortion." Every single one I know personally recognizes that abortion is not a great option - and unwanted pregnancies are not a great thing.

            Try assuming "they're good people" as a starting place.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
              That's too broad of a brush. There are no doubt some people who feel that way, but I've talked to quite a few pro-choice people who have agonized over their decision, upto and after the event. I've talked to quite a few who see it as a necessary evil barring any other solutions.
              Which is why many pregnancy centers exist to offer alternatives, including the assistance both in counseling, as well as physical and financial. For many of us, it's not just about "end abortion" - it's about how we can help people face their fears and make better choices.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Try assuming "they're good people" as a starting place.
                That would weaken the win-on-everything-at-all-costs attitude, so my guess is no.
                "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                Save me, save me"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  Try assuming "they're good people" as a starting place.
                  This is EXACTLY the approach we take every day in counseling .... "you're not a bad person, you're just in a really bad place".
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                    That would weaken the win-on-everything-at-all-costs attitude, so my guess is no.
                    Well, as I already posted, that's exactly the position we take at the pregnancy center where I'm involved, and at least 5 others that are in that cluster. I can't speak for national, but regionally, that's exactly the position we take.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      It's not a lie, Carpe, if I really believe it, and at this point, I really do. I don't think you're really neutral. I'm entitled to my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.
                      The lie, CP, is repeating the claim that I think I am neutral when I have told you I do not, repeatedly. I don't care if you do or do not think I'm neutral. But continually repeating that I think I am when I have explained otherwise is simply doing what others have done, and repeating a lie.

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Which, my opinion, is why you love this fight.
                      Which is another lie. You are speculating on what I love, and hiding behind, "it's my opinion."

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Well, we can all see you're doing an incredibly effective job!

                      You don't think I KNOW that, Carpe? Now you're just being a jerk.

                      You're not my boss, Carpe, and I really don't need your arrogant condescending attitude. You can play that silly game AGAIN, but I'll post when and where I want to post, and if you don't want to respond, don't. But you won't be able to resist, because, IMOHBAO, that's what you're all about. I think you love the fight.
                      Your not my boss? Really? We're down to THAT level of juvenile response?

                      That wasn't a command, CP. It was an obvious statement. You're whining about this thread going on and on, and busily responding to my posts. No one is forcing you to stay here. Whine if you want, but as long as you respond - especially when you do so with lies - I will probably respond.

                      If you hate it - you have a choice.

                      And I would say that arrogance is steaming out of Texas, right about now, so your being a hypocrite on top of it all...

                      ETA: Here's a thought, CP. Why don't you try going back through my posts and reading them WITHOUT the chip on your shoulder? Maybe you'll read them a bit differently.
                      Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-15-2019, 02:04 PM.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                        That would weaken the win-on-everything-at-all-costs attitude, so my guess is no.
                        That much is pretty obvious...
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          This is EXACTLY the approach we take every day in counseling .... "you're not a bad person, you're just in a really bad place".
                          Good start. Now why don' you try applying it to posts here and other public comments made about the issue?

                          Or do we only show compassion when we actually have a human face to look at?
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            The lie, CP, is repeating the claim that I think I am neutral when I have told you I do not, repeatedly.
                            I think you believe that you are.

                            I don't care if you do or do not think I'm neutral.
                            I think you do.

                            But continually repeating that I think I am when I have explained otherwise is simply doing what others have done, and repeating a lie.
                            Carpe, you can claim that til the cows come home, but I'm simply not buying it. I think you love to hear yourself talk (figuratively) and here's a topic where you can battle on!

                            Which is another lie. You are speculating on what I love, and hiding behind, "it's my opinion."
                            Wow..... should I play that childish game, too? WAAAAaannnnnnhhhhhh Carpe is LYING about what I said...... the more you object, the more I'm convinced you're just in it for the fight. That's my OPINION, and I'm not hiding ANYTHING. How on earth can "speculation" be a "lie"?

                            That wasn't a command, CP. It was an obvious statement. You're whining about this thread going on and on, and busily responding to my posts. No one is forcing you to stay here. Whine if you want, but as long as you respond - especially when you do so with lies - I will probably respond.
                            Whining? Carpe, you are by far the WORDIEST poster I've seen in a long time, and I honestly believe (get ready to call me a liar again) it works against you.

                            If you hate it - you have a choice.
                            If I hate WHAT? Your bloviation? I think it's rather amusing!

                            And I would say that arrogance is steaming out of Texas, right about now, so your being a hypocrite on top of it all...
                            Actually, I'm not pretending NOT to be arrogant, so it's not hypocrisy.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Which is why many pregnancy centers exist to offer alternatives, including the assistance both in counseling, as well as physical and financial. For many of us, it's not just about "end abortion" - it's about how we can help people face their fears and make better choices.
                              That's a good start. I think there's more that we can try, but it would require a lot of conservatives to give up on some of their sacred cows.
                              "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                              Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                              Save me, save me"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Good start. Now why don' you try applying it to posts here and other public comments made about the issue?

                                Or do we only show compassion when we actually have a human face to look at?
                                Why don't YOU stop with your assumptions that those of us who are pro-life think people who have abortions are "bad people"? Would you like me to find that quote for you?
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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