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Thread: Limited atonement?

  1. #21
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    OSAS depends on Sola Fide being true.
    The claim that Sola Fide was promoted by Paul is demolished by Romans 10:10.
    Rom 10:10 The outcome of faith is righteousness - The outcome of CONFESSING with the mouth is salvation.
    OSAS is therefore a house of cards.
    And that is even before the definition of "faith" as "belief" begins to be examined.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    OSAS depends on Sola Fide being true.
    The claim that Sola Fide was promoted by Paul is demolished by Romans 10:10.
    Rom 10:10 The outcome of faith is righteousness - The outcome of CONFESSING with the mouth is salvation.
    OSAS is therefore a house of cards.
    And that is even before the definition of "faith" as "belief" begins to be examined.
    What is your "in a nutshell" definition of "Sola Fide"?
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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  3. #23
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    The one that invariably is promoted: "Faith alone saves. Christ will lose none that the Father has given him. A person can do nothing to secure his salvation."
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    The one that invariably is promoted: "Faith alone saves. Christ will lose none that the Father has given him. A person can do nothing to secure his salvation."
    and yet you just said that confessing that faith saves you (rom 10:10). So how does that defeat OSAS?

  5. #25
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    and yet you just said that confessing that faith saves you (rom 10:10). So how does that defeat OSAS?
    Rom 10:9 If you confess the Lord Jesus AND believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you shall be saved
    Rom 10:10 for the outcome of faith is righteousness, and the outcome of confession WITH YOUR MOUTH will be salvation

    Which part of that is "only believe" fulfilling?
    if there is not confession with your mouth ... ?
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  6. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Rom 10:9 If you confess the Lord Jesus AND believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you shall be saved
    Rom 10:10 for the outcome of faith is righteousness, and the outcome of confession WITH YOUR MOUTH will be salvation

    Which part of that is "only believe" fulfilling?
    if there is not confession with your mouth ... ?
    What part do you think says that you can lose your salvation is what I am asking? You were saying that the verse defeats Once Saved Always Saved. Yet all it does is give a formula to be saved. Nothing about losing that salvation. And you are confessing your faith and belief to others, so I see anything about something other than belief there.

  7. Amen Obsidian amen'd this post.
  8. #27
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    The verse(s) defeat Sola Fide - Without Sola Fide, OSAS can't stand (near as I can tell.) Without verse 10 and by dint of some nasty sophistry, verse 9 could be tortured into compliance with Sola Fide.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  9. #28
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    The verse(s) defeat Sola Fide - Without Sola Fide, OSAS can't stand (near as I can tell.) Without verse 10 and by dint of some nasty sophistry, verse 9 could be tortured into compliance with Sola Fide.
    I'm not a OSAS adherent. That said, I think Romans 10 may defeat Sola Fide...but I don't think it defeats OSAS. You can't continue to be "Always" saved if you were never saved to start with. There are better verses to cite against OSAS than Romans 10:9-10 IMHO...
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    The only way you can see Romans 10:9-10 as defeating sola fide is if you view faith as merely intellectual assent, or something that does not produce any effects in the life of the believer what so ever. If "confessing with the mouth" is instead seen as the product of a living and effectual faith, then the passage doesn't really pose that much of a problem for the doctrine of sole fide.

  11. Amen Sparko, lee_merrill amen'd this post.
  12. #30
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    The verse(s) defeat Sola Fide - Without Sola Fide, OSAS can't stand (near as I can tell.) Without verse 10 and by dint of some nasty sophistry, verse 9 could be tortured into compliance with Sola Fide.
    why not?

    How does the verse defeat Sola fide (faith alone?) All it is saying is that you have to believe and confess your belief. Confessing isn't a "work" it is just an admission of your faith to others. And there is nothing about "unconfessing" your faith. So how does it defeat OSAS?

    And the same author who wrote that is the one who wrote the verse that says "by faith alone and not by works" - - Do you think Paul just goes around contradicting himself?

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