It's The Ecomomy Stupid...

[Sparko]

No content - no further response

just looked through the thread. You have cited NOTHING to support your claims about "data". The only one who has cited any data was seer, which you promptly dismissed.

[carpedm9587]

just looked through the thread. You have cited NOTHING to support your claims about "data". The only one who has cited any data was seer, which you promptly dismissed.

Then you went through the thread poorly....as anyone who takes more care will quickly see...

[Sparko]

Then you went through the thread poorly....as anyone who takes more care will quickly see...

Or you are full of horse crap.

All you did when responding to me was continually refer to "the data" (the data shows... when you look at the data...) and never actually show "the data" or any sources.

[Cow Poke]

Then you went through the thread poorly....as anyone who takes more care will quickly see...

Carpe, you are the subject matter expert on Carpe. It should not be difficult for you to link to the posts where you answered the question.

[carpedm9587]

Or you are full of horse crap.

All you did when responding to me was continually refer to "the data" (the data shows... when you look at the data...) and never actually show "the data" or any sources.

Then you went through the thread poorly....as anyone who takes more care will quickly see...

[carpedm9587]

Carpe, you are the subject matter expert on Carpe. It should not be difficult for you to link to the posts where you answered the question.

I have better things to do with my time.

Don't get me wrong, CP - I probably would take the time to do so for you. My experience is that, as much as we disagree, you are usually willing to engage in a discussion and examine the evidence. With Sparko, I'll spend 10-20 minutes walking through the thread looking for my posts and places where I cited data-related information, and it will be hand-waved away and I'll get another "saint Carpe" and

Why waste my time? If he wants it - he can find it. If he can't find it, apparently he doesn't want it. It's kind of like all those poor folks who would be rich if they just put in the effort!

[Cow Poke]

I have better things to do with my time.

One of Mormon posters used to say that all the time, particularly when asked to back up a claim, then continue to post long arguments....

Don't get me wrong, CP - I probably would take the time to do so for you. My experience is that, as much as we disagree, you are usually willing to engage in a discussion and examine the evidence. With Sparko, I'll spend 10-20 minutes walking through the thread looking for my posts and places where I cited data-related information, and it will be hand-waved away and I'll get another "saint Carpe" and

Why waste my time? If he wants it - he can find it. If he can't find it, apparently he doesn't want it. It's kind of like all those poor folks who would be rich if they just put in the effort!

As you wish! I'll leave the last word to you.


(crossing my fingers)

[Sparko]

I have better things to do with my time.

Don't get me wrong, CP - I probably would take the time to do so for you. My experience is that, as much as we disagree, you are usually willing to engage in a discussion and examine the evidence. With Sparko, I'll spend 10-20 minutes walking through the thread looking for my posts and places where I cited data-related information, and it will be hand-waved away and I'll get another "saint Carpe" and

Why waste my time? If he wants it - he can find it. If he can't find it, apparently he doesn't want it. It's kind of like all those poor folks who would be rich if they just put in the effort!

I am calling you out carp. You are lying.

Here are a few references to "the data" from one of your last posts to me:

And here is where you jump the rails. Everyone is NOT offered the same opportunity. Where you start impacts where you are likely to end up. This assumption on your part is part of the mantra you have been fed by your masters, and you have internalized it like a good boy - spitting it out regularly without actually thinking it through, even when the data shows you are wrong.

The data tells us social consciousness reduces proportionate to wealth.

I know what the data tells me about wealth distribution, opportunity, and social mobility. I know what the tax code tells me about who it is designed to most benefit, and I reject the indoctrination of the rich and the Republican party that has you mindlessly defending their "rights" in the face of overwhelming evidence of a system skewed to predominantly benefit the wealthy.

Show me anywhere in this thread where you actually showed this "data" you are referring to.

Prove me wrong.

[seer]

I have better things to do with my time.

Don't get me wrong, CP - I probably would take the time to do so for you. My experience is that, as much as we disagree, you are usually willing to engage in a discussion and examine the evidence. With Sparko, I'll spend 10-20 minutes walking through the thread looking for my posts and places where I cited data-related information, and it will be hand-waved away and I'll get another "saint Carpe" and

Why waste my time? If he wants it - he can find it. If he can't find it, apparently he doesn't want it. It's kind of like all those poor folks who would be rich if they just put in the effort!

For instance you said this: And you continue to want to ignore that 84% of those stocks are held by the top 5% in this country

You gave no reference, but it is actually 10%.

Then you said: In the U.S., CEO income rose by over 17% as a direct result of the tax cuts and stock buybacks

You never gave a reference for this either, and I could not find one.

Then you claimed were not speaking of fairness, when that has been your whole argument...

[carpedm9587]

I am calling you out carp. You are lying.

Here are a few references to "the data" from one of your last posts to me:



Show me anywhere in this thread where you actually showed this "data" you are referring to.

Prove me wrong.

Call me out?

Sparko - you take your forum too seriously.

I respectfully decline your invitation. Do your own work. Or not...

[Sparko]

Call me out?

Sparko - you take your forum too seriously.

I respectfully decline your invitation. Do your own work. Or not...

As I figured. There are only 10 pages here and you didn't even hop on till page 3. Yet you can't be bothered to support your own claim. Well I bothered. I did "do my own work" I went through the thread. and you did not supply the data you referred to in your posts to me. So you are a damned liar and don't even have the integrity to admit it.

[Cow Poke]

Call me out?

Sparko - you take your forum too seriously.

I respectfully decline your invitation. Do your own work. Or not...

At this point, a wise and prudent man might say something like, "OK, I may have misstated...."

[carpedm9587]

For instance you said this: And you continue to want to ignore that 84% of those stocks are held by the top 5% in this country

You gave no reference, but it is actually 10%.

First, you're right. I crossed two statistics - stocks and total capital gains. Thanks for calling me on it.

Second - the crossing of those two numbers doesn't significantly impact the point that was being made: that capital gains do not benefit the poor and most of the middle class - they are skewed to the upper part of the middle class and the wealthy. You have to make over $108K to cross the 90th percentile. Even when you do, the statistics also tell us that 50% of total capital gains are earned by the top 0.1%, so you are only a bit player at 90%. Crossing the 99%ile requires an income above $300K (2017 numbers).

Then you said: In the U.S., CEO income rose by over 17% as a direct result of the tax cuts and stock buybacks

You never gave a reference for this either, and I could not find one.

First - Read my statement to Sparko. I said I provided data. I also said I did not link every single piece of data to a source. I'm writing a post on a forum - not a term paper. When I cite a statistic I just looked up - I provide the source. When I provide a statistic based on something I previously looked up and know from memory - I don't always. I simply cite what I know (and yes, that means I can get it wrong).

Second - you must not have looked very hard. A simple search located multiple references, including this one. In addition to citing the 17% increase - it notes that the companies that experienced those tax cuts spent 37 times as much on stock buybacks as they did on jobs and salaries. When you add that to the distribution of stock across the economic ladder - you have a massive benefit to the wealthy and a minuscule (or nonexistent) benefit to the middle and lower classes. The data is simply irrefutable.

Then you claimed were not speaking of fairness, when that has been your whole argument...

I said that I have not used the word "fair" at any point in my discussion. The system is skewed to primarily provide benefit to the wealthy. There are multiple examples throughout the tax code of advantages a wealthy person can access and a person of lesser means cannot. A person of lesser means is usually stuck renting - a person of greater means can qualify for a mortgage and buy. You can deduct the interest on that loan, but not the rent on your apartment. You can deduct the taxes on your home, but not the rent on your apartment. The list goes on and on and on.

A system that advantages one group at the expense of another is not a healthy system - and creates any number of social ills (poverty, health issues, crime, etc.). There are distinct links between poverty and crime, education, health, and the list goes on. It's not about "fairness." It's about what kind of society we want. It's about spending less on healthcare, drug rehabilitation, crime prevention, prisons, and more on education - our roads - our power systems. Poverty is a drain on the entire system.

Making my argument about something I am not arguing does not help your position.

[carpedm9587]

As I figured. There are only 10 pages here and you didn't even hop on till page 3. Yet you can't be bothered to support your own claim. Well I bothered. I did "do my own work" I went through the thread. and you did not supply the data you referred to in your posts to me. So you are a damned liar and don't even have the integrity to admit it.

I supported my own claims...with the numbers. And so much for your policy about not calling people liars when you cannot show them to be such....

At this point, Sparko - your hypocrisy and your bordering-on-rabid dislike for me is pretty evident. I think I'll leave you to it. Last word on this to you.

[carpedm9587]

At this point, a wise and prudent man might say something like, "OK, I may have misstated...."

First - when I make a mistake - I say so. My track record stands for itself (Sparko and his clan's assertions notwithstanding)

Second - what exactly do you think I misstated?