It's The Ecomomy Stupid...

[seer]

Sometimes - the truth is hard to hear.



Boy - you just love those references.

There is nothing else here for me to respond to that I haven't already responded to. You are definitely in the "brainwashed" class. Fortunately for you, there are some of us not buying the tripe of the wealthy and we will work to create a more equitable and balanced system, from which you will likely benefit. Based on your posts, I'm pretty sure you'll fight the whole thing the whole way.

You should read "What's the Matter with Kansas."

I would like to keep this going but massa is calling...yessa massa, I be coming massa...

[rogue06]

Who is being punished? Everyone is subject to the exact same tax rate. What you need to live is tax-free. The excess is taxed. All business taxes eliminated. How is that "punishment?" Because the poor rich person has to make due with $1.1M instead of $1.5M? SOrry. To those whom much is given, much is expected.

So you're one of these that thinks nobody ever earns what they got, it was "given" to them.

Forget the fact that someone may have spent their time studying instead of going out partying with their friends. Or they forgoed that new car, big screen TV or nice vacation and instead saved every penny they could. Or started a business on their own assuming a lot of personal risk in that venture. Or who spent the first five years working 10-12 hours every day six days a week (or even more). Or who finally saw their first profit after three years and celebrated by dining out the first time in a year.

Yeah. They were "given" their success.

Or in the words of a patron saint of the Democrat/left:

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Yeah, far better for us to give the money as a bigger tax "refund" to those who didn't even pay any taxes. That would be what's "fair"

[rogue06]

You should read "What's the Matter with Kansas."

Ah the book where some liberals whined why were more folks "takers" demanding more. Apparently they were unaware of what is called a work ethic and self-respect.

[carpedm9587]

So you're one of these that thinks nobody ever earns what they got, it was "given" to them.

Is this really the best you guys can do? You're flailing at a strawman, Rogue - so I'm going to let you flail away. I never said this, nor do I think this, so I feel no need to defend it.

Forget the fact that someone may have spent their time studying instead of going out partying with their friends. Or they forgoed that new car, big screen TV or nice vacation and instead saved every penny they could. Or started a business on their own assuming a lot of personal risk in that venture. Or who spent the first five years working 10-12 hours every day six days a week (or even more). Or who finally saw their first profit after three years and celebrated by dining out the first time in a year.

Yeah. They were "given" their success.

Or in the words of a patron saint of the Democrat/left:

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One cherry-picked quote. You guys certainly love to pull this kind of crap.

For those interested in the entire story - here is that statement in it's original context.

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

Within that statement is the bolded quote. Obama should have been more careful - and should have known he would be cherry-picked. Notice nobody cherry-picked this quote: "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

You can do better, Rogue. Such cherry-picking is simply dishonest.

Yeah, far better for us to give the money as a bigger tax "refund" to those who didn't even pay any taxes. That would be what's "fair"

Another strawman, so I'll let you beat away at the straw.

[Sparko]

And here is where you jump the rails. Everyone is NOT offered the same opportunity. Where you start impacts where you are likely to end up. This assumption on your part is part of the mantra you have been fed by your masters, and you have internalized it like a good boy - spitting it out regularly without actually thinking it through, even when the data shows you are wrong.

We do all have the same opportunity. We don't all have the same abilities. And you keep mentioning this nebulous "data" that you never actually show. convenient.

And there we have it...the mantra of the rich religiously put forward by the indoctrinated. This is the land of opportunity - so anyone who is not rich (unless they are disabled or mentally ill) is poor by choice. If you didn't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you are lazy or you chose to be poor.

I didn't say that at all. try reading what I wrote.

The data tells us social consciousness reduces proportionate to wealth. The higher up the economic ladder you are, the less likely you are to be socially conscious. As a percentage, the poor and middle class give more to charity than the rich. It even appears in your bible: the widow's pence. It has always been thus. The poor and middle class tend give out of their COL wages, like the widow. The rich give out of their excess - and an excess that is overwhelmingly (but not absolutely) earned on the backs of others. That does not mean socially conscious rich people don't exist. It means they are comparatively rare - and MOSTLY the rich work to continually skew the system in their favor, and indoctrinate people like you to defend them doing so.

Ah, the "data" again. right.

You seem to want to do what you always do, and point to the comparative handful of those who practice good business ethics to make the claim, "see, businesses are good!" You'r elike the man looking at a diseased apple, finding a small spot that is not rotten and screaming - "see - the apple is good!"

And you seem to claim all business people are evil incarnate trying to take advantage of their workers. Except YOU of course, Saint Carp.

The rest of this is more of the same mindless tripe you've been taught to repeat like a mantra - or sideswipes at my business ethics, so there really is no point in wasting further time responding.

Says Mr. "Data"

I know how I run my business. I know what the data tells me about wealth distribution, opportunity, and social mobility. I know what the tax code tells me about who it is designed to most benefit, and I reject the indoctrination of the rich and the Republican party that has you mindlessly defending their "rights" in the face of overwhelming evidence of a system skewed to predominantly benefit the wealthy.

When/if the rest of us are successful in shifting things - you and Seer will likely benefit. If your indoctrination holds - you'll complain about it the entire time, pining for a return to the do,inance of your masters.

the Data again.

[carpedm9587]

Ah the book where some liberals whined why were more folks "takers" demanding more. Apparently they were unaware of what is called a work ethic and self-respect.

And another one mouthing the mantras of his masters while tossing out strawmen right and left.

Rogue - when you have something more than memes and tropes - and when you are responding to the things I am actually saying, I'll responded further. Until then, I'm going to leave you to your right-leaning self-stimulation.

[Sparko]

I think carp missed this so I will repost:

By using his/her money to foster a tax and economic system that is designed to continually enrich him/her and maximize his/her value while keeping yours as low as it can be kept without triggering your outrage. It's a fine line. With you they have been successful. You're the "good slave" who knows his place and defends his master's right to control your strings. Heck - you don't even appear to know you're controlled. After all - you just got an extra $5 a day thanks to your master's generosity!

So that is what you are doing with your employees? And they as good slaves should thank your generosity?

[carpedm9587]

We do all have the same opportunity. We don't all have the same abilities. And you keep mentioning this nebulous "data" that you never actually show. convenient.

I didn't say that at all. try reading what I wrote.

Ah, the "data" again. right.

And you seem to claim all business people are evil incarnate trying to take advantage of their workers. Except YOU of course, Saint Carp.

Says Mr. "Data"

the Data again.

The only thing here are points I have already responded to, more mocking in the absence of actual argumentation, and more strawmen (i.e., things I didn't say). As with Rogue - if you have some actual content, I'll respond. But if all you want to do is ignore data and build strawmen you can summarily take down, I'm going to leave you to your self-stimulation.

[Sparko]

The only thing here are points I have already responded to, more mocking in the absence of actual argumentation, and more strawmen (i.e., things I didn't say). As with Rogue - if you have some actual content, I'll respond. But if all you want to do is ignore data and build strawmen you can summarily take down, I'm going to leave you to your self-stimulation.

Where's the data carp? Where's the beef?

[carpedm9587]

I think carp missed this so I will repost:

So that is what you are doing with your employees? And they as good slaves should thank your generosity?

Now - I saw it. It has no content - so I didn't bother responding. I've already described how I run my business.

[carpedm9587]

Where's the data carp? Where's the beef?

Go through the thread, Sparko. I've cited a significant amount of data, and provided sources for some of it. I haven't sourced every single piece cited. I don't make up data - I find it and use it to guide my decision making process. If you don't believe that...no real skin off my nose

Meanwhile, I haven't seen you do anything except mock, misrepresent the positions I've expressed, and erect strawmen. So the discussion is largely a waste of time. When you have actual content, I'll respond further. As long as you are mindlessly mouthing the mantras of the Republicans/wealthy and erecting strawmen - I'll leave you to it.

[Sparko]

Now - I saw it. It has no content - so I didn't bother responding. I've already described how I run my business.

Yet you seem to think that every other business owner is just a rich slave owner doling out pittances to their grateful slaves, like seer. But not YOU, oh no! Not Saint Carp. You are the exception. You are more like a benevolent king who bestows gifts upon his faithful and loyal subjects. right?

[Sparko]

Go through the thread, Sparko. I've cited a significant amount of data, and provided sources for some of it. I haven't sourced every single piece cited. I don't make up data - I find it and use it to guide my decision making process. If you don't believe that...no real skin off my nose

Meanwhile, I haven't seen you do anything except mock, misrepresent the positions I've expressed, and erect strawmen. So the discussion is largely a waste of time. When you have actual content, I'll respond further. As long as you are mindlessly mouthing the mantras of the Republicans/wealthy and erecting strawmen - I'll leave you to it.

Ah the old "I already showed you, go find it yourself" routine. right.

Have you been taking lessons from JimL?

ETA - just looked through the thread. You have cited NOTHING to support your claims about "data". The only one who has cited any data was seer, which you promptly dismissed.

[carpedm9587]

Yet you seem to think that every other business owner is just a rich slave owner doling out pittances to their grateful slaves, like seer. But not YOU, oh no! Not Saint Carp. You are the exception. You are more like a benevolent king who bestows gifts upon his faithful and loyal subjects. right?

No content - no further response.

[carpedm9587]

Ah the old "I already showed you, go find it yourself" routine. right.

Have you been taking lessons from JimL?

No content - no further response