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Thread: A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

    A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

    Finally, a step toward common sense.

    The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) this week upheld the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) regulations governing eligibility for the women’s category in international elite athletics competition. In effect, CAS decided the question “who is a woman” for purposes of elite sport. And it ratified the IAAF’s preferred answer: A woman in sport is anyone whose legal identity is female—whether they personally identify as such or not—and who has testosterone (T) levels in the female range. That may seem like a mere technical ruling. But as I’ll explain in this article, the ramifications are profound for female athletics everywhere—a cause that has been central to my life and to the lives of millions of girls and women worldwide.

    The female range for testosterone is categorically different from the male range. In general, males have 10 to 30 times more T than females. Most females, including most elite female athletes, have T levels in the range of 0.5 to 1.5 nanomoles per liter (nmol/L). For men, typical values are 10 to 35 nmol/L. The reason there is a gap, with no overlap between the ranges, is that beginning in puberty, the testes produce a lot more T than ovaries and adrenal glands combined. And so the IAAF maximum of 5 nmol/L for women has been set, generously, to reflect the upper bound of T levels that can be produced even by polycystic ovaries.
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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    That sounds like a judgement based on a settled science. Liberals should have no problem with this, right?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That sounds like a judgement based on a settled science. Liberals should have no problem with this, right?
    It's funny how their idiotic social engineering so often comes back to bite them in the butt.
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    Based on this particular reasoning, shouldn't Michael Phelps have been kicked out of the Olympics because his body produces half the lactic acid of other competitors?

    I feel bad for this athlete. She isn't transgender or anything; she just happens to have a weird medical situation going on.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I feel bad for this athlete. She isn't transgender or anything; she just happens to have a weird medical situation going on.
    Why, there are ways for her to drop her T levels.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Why, there are ways for her to drop her T levels.
    But why is it okay for Michael Phelps to have a natural physical advantage but not her? He was generally celebrated for his physical difference; he was thought of as a medical marvel.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    But why is it okay for Michael Phelps to have a natural physical advantage but not her? He was generally celebrated for his physical difference; he was thought of as a medical marvel.
    Because in this case they are trying to level the field, generally, in essence to prevent biological males from taking over women's sports. T levels are one way to do it. I would have preferred that they just focused on biological sex, the sex you were born with. Then Ms. Semenya would have been protected. Why they went down this T road is beyond me, the fear of backlash?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because in this case they are trying to level the field, generally, in essence to prevent biological males from taking over women's sports. T levels are one way to do it. I would have preferred that they just focused on biological sex, the sex you were born with. Then Ms. Semenya would have been protected. Why they went down this T road is beyond me, the fear of backlash?
    Possibly because "the sex you were born with" becomes a thorny issue when it comes to the intersex, because how do you set a definitive standard as to whether they count as male or female for the purpose of sports? Testosterone, on the other hand, is an objective measurement.

    Another issue with "the sex you were born with" is that while that while it works for preventing men from having an unfair advantage by competing in women's sports, it means that female-to-male transsexuals are still put with the females even while taking testosterone, granting a drug-induced advantage. The testosterone standard therefore puts those individuals into the male bracket rather than essentially putting females against steroid-enhanced females.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because in this case they are trying to level the field, generally, in essence to prevent biological males from taking over women's sports. T levels are one way to do it. I would have preferred that they just focused on biological sex, the sex you were born with. Then Ms. Semenya would have been protected. Why they went down this T road is beyond me, the fear of backlash?
    Probably. Since the prevaling wind is to define sex based on something other than one's dna and/or birth sex organs, finding a clear marker that can be used to differentiate sport is harder.

    Jim
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    Possibly because "the sex you were born with" becomes a thorny issue when it comes to the intersex, because how do you set a definitive standard as to whether they count as male or female for the purpose of sports? Testosterone, on the other hand, is an objective measurement.

    Another issue with "the sex you were born with" is that while that while it works for preventing men from having an unfair advantage by competing in women's sports, it means that female-to-male transsexuals are still put with the females even while taking testosterone, granting a drug-induced advantage. The testosterone standard therefore puts those individuals into the male bracket rather than essentially putting females against steroid-enhanced females.
    We do not tolerate athletes that take hormones to alter their natual physical state. That is called doping.

    And we do not care why the doping infraction occurs. Just ask any of the suspended cyclists found to have doped even though the doping chemical was prescrbed for medical reasons, not enhanced performance.

    It is one thing to create rules to accommodate people that clearly and physically have mixed attributes as opposed to people whose only gender confusion is found in their minds.

    Women's sport vs mens sport should be based on the natural physical characteristics related to sex the athelete was born with. Sport is a physical activity. And we do not tolerate unnatural alteration of the inborn physical capabilities. You compete based on who and what you are naturally and what you have been able to train yourself to do whithout chemical alteration.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-05-2019 at 03:25 PM.
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

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