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Thread: A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Probably. Since the prevaling wind is to define sex based on something other than one's dna and/or birth sex organs, finding a clear marker that can be used to differentiate sport is harder.

    Jim
    Sex organs alone probably aren't a viable solution because of intersex outliers, right?
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  2. #12
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    Possibly because "the sex you were born with" becomes a thorny issue when it comes to the intersex, because how do you set a definitive standard as to whether they count as male or female for the purpose of sports? Testosterone, on the other hand, is an objective measurement.
    Yes for the intersex you could use T levels.

    Another issue with "the sex you were born with" is that while that while it works for preventing men from having an unfair advantage by competing in women's sports, it means that female-to-male transsexuals are still put with the females even while taking testosterone, granting a drug-induced advantage. The testosterone standard therefore puts those individuals into the male bracket rather than essentially putting females against steroid-enhanced females.
    Again in those cases, like with the intersex, we could use T levels but as a general policy we would stick with biology.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Sex organs alone probably aren't a viable solution because of intersex outliers, right?
    Seems you would just need a policy for those rare cases where more than one sex organ is present.

    Jim
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Based on this particular reasoning, shouldn't Michael Phelps have been kicked out of the Olympics because his body produces half the lactic acid of other competitors?

    I feel bad for this athlete. She isn't transgender or anything; she just happens to have a weird medical situation going on.
    Is the amount of lactic acid in the body a defining characteristic of gender like testosterone? It's not about stopping people with a natural physical advantage from competing, it's to stop men from calling themselves women and having an absurdly unfair advantage in women's sporta.
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  5. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Is the amount of lactic acid in the body a defining characteristic of gender like testosterone? It's not about stopping people with a natural physical advantage from competing, it's to stop men from calling themselves women and having an absurdly unfair advantage in women's sporta.
    No. But this particular athlete isn't trying to do that either. She isn't one of the men trying to pretend to be women, which there do seem to be a number of out there.

    I don't think there's any really good solution in this case, though.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    No. But this particular athlete isn't trying to do that either. She isn't one of the men trying to pretend to be women, which there do seem to be a number of out there.

    I don't think there's any really good solution in this case, though.
    She is a victim of the idiots trying to say it makes sense to let people that are physically men compete against women in sports.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-05-2019 at 08:20 PM.
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    No. But this particular athlete isn't trying to do that either. She isn't one of the men trying to pretend to be women, which there do seem to be a number of out there.

    I don't think there's any really good solution in this case, though.
    But there is. Just recognize that anyone with a natural body that is male can't compte against people with natural bodies that are female. I mean sports, especially professional sports, is all about being gifted with a very rare set of physical capabilities. So it is already exclusive, and if you dont have the natural body that allows you to compete, tough. That is why we dont just let everyone dope themselves into supercompetitors. You compete based on your natural gifts plus your hard work.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-05-2019 at 08:21 PM.
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

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    This still isn't a fair solution. Even if a transwoman has had the operation and has testosterone levels in the correct range, when she was a he she had all of the growth benefits of testosterone. She would still have a man's frame and muscles even if they had atrophied a bit because of lack of testosterone.

    I believe if a sport has a gender specific category, then it should only allow genetically matched genders into that category. So a female only sport should be for those born as female who have female DNA. Why is it so hard for them to just say that? The whole reason we have female only leagues is to allow women to compete in sports where men would normally dominate. To allow any sort of former male into the league defeats the entire purpose.

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  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Based on this particular reasoning, shouldn't Michael Phelps have been kicked out of the Olympics because his body produces half the lactic acid of other competitors?

    I feel bad for this athlete. She isn't transgender or anything; she just happens to have a weird medical situation going on.
    Thanks for pointing that out, KG -- it's making me look deeper into this.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    This still isn't a fair solution. Even if a transwoman has had the operation and has testosterone levels in the correct range, when she was a he she had all of the growth benefits of testosterone. She would still have a man's frame and muscles even if they had atrophied a bit because of lack of testosterone.

    I believe if a sport has a gender specific category, then it should only allow genetically matched genders into that category. So a female only sport should be for those born as female who have female DNA. Why is it so hard for them to just say that? The whole reason we have female only leagues is to allow women to compete in sports where men would normally dominate. To allow any sort of former male into the league defeats the entire purpose.
    I do not know why the concept is so difficult to grasp for some. but some people can't accept who they are and they want the rest of the world to adjust and acknowledge they are what they want to be, regardless of whether or not that is a fantasy or reality. This aspect of the LBGTQ movement (TQ) is just bonkers to me. And it seems contrary to the mantra - accept me for who I am. Well your body is male whether that is what you want to be or not. Get over it!

    Jim
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

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