Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

    A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

    Finally, a step toward common sense.

    The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) this week upheld the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) regulations governing eligibility for the women’s category in international elite athletics competition. In effect, CAS decided the question “who is a woman” for purposes of elite sport. And it ratified the IAAF’s preferred answer: A woman in sport is anyone whose legal identity is female—whether they personally identify as such or not—and who has testosterone (T) levels in the female range. That may seem like a mere technical ruling. But as I’ll explain in this article, the ramifications are profound for female athletics everywhere—a cause that has been central to my life and to the lives of millions of girls and women worldwide.

    The female range for testosterone is categorically different from the male range. In general, males have 10 to 30 times more T than females. Most females, including most elite female athletes, have T levels in the range of 0.5 to 1.5 nanomoles per liter (nmol/L). For men, typical values are 10 to 35 nmol/L. The reason there is a gap, with no overlap between the ranges, is that beginning in puberty, the testes produce a lot more T than ovaries and adrenal glands combined. And so the IAAF maximum of 5 nmol/L for women has been set, generously, to reflect the upper bound of T levels that can be produced even by polycystic ovaries.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    That sounds like a judgement based on a settled science. Liberals should have no problem with this, right?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      That sounds like a judgement based on a settled science. Liberals should have no problem with this, right?
      It's funny how their idiotic social engineering so often comes back to bite them in the butt.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Based on this particular reasoning, shouldn't Michael Phelps have been kicked out of the Olympics because his body produces half the lactic acid of other competitors?

        I feel bad for this athlete. She isn't transgender or anything; she just happens to have a weird medical situation going on.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I feel bad for this athlete. She isn't transgender or anything; she just happens to have a weird medical situation going on.
          Why, there are ways for her to drop her T levels.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Why, there are ways for her to drop her T levels.
            But why is it okay for Michael Phelps to have a natural physical advantage but not her? He was generally celebrated for his physical difference; he was thought of as a medical marvel.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              But why is it okay for Michael Phelps to have a natural physical advantage but not her? He was generally celebrated for his physical difference; he was thought of as a medical marvel.
              Because in this case they are trying to level the field, generally, in essence to prevent biological males from taking over women's sports. T levels are one way to do it. I would have preferred that they just focused on biological sex, the sex you were born with. Then Ms. Semenya would have been protected. Why they went down this T road is beyond me, the fear of backlash?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Because in this case they are trying to level the field, generally, in essence to prevent biological males from taking over women's sports. T levels are one way to do it. I would have preferred that they just focused on biological sex, the sex you were born with. Then Ms. Semenya would have been protected. Why they went down this T road is beyond me, the fear of backlash?
                Possibly because "the sex you were born with" becomes a thorny issue when it comes to the intersex, because how do you set a definitive standard as to whether they count as male or female for the purpose of sports? Testosterone, on the other hand, is an objective measurement.

                Another issue with "the sex you were born with" is that while that while it works for preventing men from having an unfair advantage by competing in women's sports, it means that female-to-male transsexuals are still put with the females even while taking testosterone, granting a drug-induced advantage. The testosterone standard therefore puts those individuals into the male bracket rather than essentially putting females against steroid-enhanced females.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Because in this case they are trying to level the field, generally, in essence to prevent biological males from taking over women's sports. T levels are one way to do it. I would have preferred that they just focused on biological sex, the sex you were born with. Then Ms. Semenya would have been protected. Why they went down this T road is beyond me, the fear of backlash?
                  Probably. Since the prevaling wind is to define sex based on something other than one's dna and/or birth sex organs, finding a clear marker that can be used to differentiate sport is harder.

                  Jim
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                    Possibly because "the sex you were born with" becomes a thorny issue when it comes to the intersex, because how do you set a definitive standard as to whether they count as male or female for the purpose of sports? Testosterone, on the other hand, is an objective measurement.

                    Another issue with "the sex you were born with" is that while that while it works for preventing men from having an unfair advantage by competing in women's sports, it means that female-to-male transsexuals are still put with the females even while taking testosterone, granting a drug-induced advantage. The testosterone standard therefore puts those individuals into the male bracket rather than essentially putting females against steroid-enhanced females.
                    We do not tolerate athletes that take hormones to alter their natual physical state. That is called doping.

                    And we do not care why the doping infraction occurs. Just ask any of the suspended cyclists found to have doped even though the doping chemical was prescrbed for medical reasons, not enhanced performance.

                    It is one thing to create rules to accommodate people that clearly and physically have mixed attributes as opposed to people whose only gender confusion is found in their minds.

                    Women's sport vs mens sport should be based on the natural physical characteristics related to sex the athelete was born with. Sport is a physical activity. And we do not tolerate unnatural alteration of the inborn physical capabilities. You compete based on who and what you are naturally and what you have been able to train yourself to do whithout chemical alteration.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-05-2019, 05:25 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Probably. Since the prevaling wind is to define sex based on something other than one's dna and/or birth sex organs, finding a clear marker that can be used to differentiate sport is harder.

                      Jim
                      Sex organs alone probably aren't a viable solution because of intersex outliers, right?
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                        Possibly because "the sex you were born with" becomes a thorny issue when it comes to the intersex, because how do you set a definitive standard as to whether they count as male or female for the purpose of sports? Testosterone, on the other hand, is an objective measurement.
                        Yes for the intersex you could use T levels.

                        Another issue with "the sex you were born with" is that while that while it works for preventing men from having an unfair advantage by competing in women's sports, it means that female-to-male transsexuals are still put with the females even while taking testosterone, granting a drug-induced advantage. The testosterone standard therefore puts those individuals into the male bracket rather than essentially putting females against steroid-enhanced females.
                        Again in those cases, like with the intersex, we could use T levels but as a general policy we would stick with biology.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Sex organs alone probably aren't a viable solution because of intersex outliers, right?
                          Seems you would just need a policy for those rare cases where more than one sex organ is present.

                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            Based on this particular reasoning, shouldn't Michael Phelps have been kicked out of the Olympics because his body produces half the lactic acid of other competitors?

                            I feel bad for this athlete. She isn't transgender or anything; she just happens to have a weird medical situation going on.
                            Is the amount of lactic acid in the body a defining characteristic of gender like testosterone? It's not about stopping people with a natural physical advantage from competing, it's to stop men from calling themselves women and having an absurdly unfair advantage in women's sporta.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Is the amount of lactic acid in the body a defining characteristic of gender like testosterone? It's not about stopping people with a natural physical advantage from competing, it's to stop men from calling themselves women and having an absurdly unfair advantage in women's sporta.
                              No. But this particular athlete isn't trying to do that either. She isn't one of the men trying to pretend to be women, which there do seem to be a number of out there.

                              I don't think there's any really good solution in this case, though.
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                              16 responses
                              82 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Mountain Man  
                              Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                              53 responses
                              278 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Stoic
                              by Stoic
                               
                              Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                              25 responses
                              109 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                              33 responses
                              195 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Roy
                              by Roy
                               
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                              84 responses
                              355 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post JimL
                              by JimL
                               
                              Working...
                              X