A Victory for Female Athletes Everywhere

[seer]

The problem is the intersex. What objective standard exists to determine which gender they get counted as for sports?

Whether they have a Y chromosome or not?

[tabibito]

Whether they have a Y chromosome or not?

Even that is not conclusive. At birth, a very small percentage of males are XX (1 in 20 000) and a very small percentage of females are XY (1 in 80 000).

[seer]

Even that is not conclusive. At birth, a very small percentage of males are XX (1 in 20 000) and a very small percentage of females are XY (1 in 80 000).

Yes, those would be exceptions to the rule, but we could still use the rule for intersex questions.

[One Bad Pig]

The problem is the intersex. What objective standard exists to determine which gender they get counted as for sports?

Given the role of testosterone in development, anyone with elevated natural testosterone levels is going to have an unfair advantage when competing against women, so should probably compete with men.

[Sparko]

The problem is the intersex. What objective standard exists to determine which gender they get counted as for sports?

And how many of them are there in the world. And how many of them want to play sports? Come on. You don't have to make exceptions for a segment of the population so small as to be non-existent. If someone doesn't fit the criteria they can't play in a specific league. What about fat people? I was never able to play in sports because I was too fat growing up. Did they make an exception for me? Nope. I just didn't qualify. And there are a lot more fat people in the world than intersex or transgender.

[Cow Poke]

Given the role of testosterone in development, anyone with elevated natural testosterone levels is going to have an unfair advantage when competing against women, so should probably compete with men.

I saw an interview on TV last night with some wild-eyed babe trying to defend the notion that there is no difference between biological males and females, nobody is "born a male", and some of these transgendered women actually lose, so it's obviously fair. Her facial contortions (including the fact that she couldn't even look at the camera) when she was saying all this crap seemed to indicated even she didn't believe what she was saying.

She kept coming to "sometimes, they lose, so it's obviously not an advantage".

[Leonhard]

I agree with you here. Just ban transgendered men from competing in women's sports. It is obviously unfair to women. They can have their own league if they want.

Pretty much. I'd rather this.

[Leonhard]

Given the role of testosterone in development, anyone with elevated natural testosterone levels is going to have an unfair advantage when competing against women, so should probably compete with men.

So do you believe Lance Armstrong has an unfair advantage against other men, because he's a genetic freak of nature who has so much testosterone in his body that he was once accused of doping?

Should he be banned from cycling?

Nonsense. This law is not about creating a Formula 100 rule set for what sort of human bodies can compete in sports. Its all about banning transgender people, and without actually admitting that.

[seer]

Its all about banning transgender people, and without actually admitting that.

No it is about biological males competing with biological males, and not with biological females. And Lance Armstrong was actually doping...

[One Bad Pig]

So do you believe Lance Armstrong has an unfair advantage against other men, because he's a genetic freak of nature who has so much testosterone in his body that he was once accused of doping?

Should he be banned from cycling?

Nonsense. This law is not about creating a Formula 100 rule set for what sort of human bodies can compete in sports. Its all about banning transgender people, and without actually admitting that.

Wasn't he stripped of all his titles for doping?

[Leonhard]

No it is about biological males competing with biological males, and not with biological females.

You can phrase it like that if you want, but that's not what this law does. It eliminated a woman from her own sport, and made a weird testosterone based claim as to what is a man or a woman. Its stupid seer.

If you don't want transgender people in the sports, then have a law specifically about that. That you can only compete as your original signed birth or whatever.

This is a dumb roundabout way of doing it, which is doing harm to people doing the sport already. And since there's absolutely zero movement to introduce similar "what is a standard human body" laws in the male sports, its a ripe area for legal criticism and attack.

[Leonhard]

Wasn't he stripped of all his titles for doping?

*looks it up*



Granted, yes, Lance Armstrong was indeed doping.

I can't remember who I was thinking of now. But there was someone who by natural chance just had an extraordinarily high level of testosterone in his blood.

[seer]

If you don't want transgender people in the sports, then have a law specifically about that. That you can only compete as your original signed birth or whatever.

That is what I suggested a while back! But even that is not about banning trans - just that they have to compete according to their birth gender.

[Leonhard]

That is what I suggested a while back! But even that is not about banning trans - just that they have to compete according to their birth gender.

We can phrase it whichever way we want seer. All I'm saying is that telling women what kind of bodies are natural for them, and regulating what testosterone level is natural for women in a legal setting, is weird law.

[seer]

We can phrase it whichever way we want seer. All I'm saying is that telling women what kind of bodies are natural for them, and regulating what testosterone level is natural for women in a legal setting, is weird law.

Right, and I said the T-level was a strange way to do it. Just use the birth gender. This is what I said in post #7: Because in this case they are trying to level the field, generally, in essence to prevent biological males from taking over women's sports. T levels are one way to do it. I would have preferred that they just focused on biological sex, the sex you were born with. Then Ms. Semenya would have been protected. Why they went down this T road is beyond me, the fear of backlash?