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Thread: 400+ prosecutors sign a letter noting POTUS absent DOJ policy not to indict POTUS

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Neither are AG Barr, DAG Rosenstein, and the other DOJ officials who had access to the full scope of the investigation and affirmed Mueller's declaration that he could not conclude that the President committed any crimes. And in this case, theirs is the only opinion that matters.
    Unfortunately that isn't true. Mueller's declaration has two elements, not one. There is not sufficient evidence to charge with a crime, nor can he be cleared of wrongdoing. One can't separate the two declarations, they both define Mueller's summary of the situation as regards obstruction. In this case, the letter written by these prosecutors sheds light on the real meaning of that second phrase. What it says is that Mueller was mostly likely forced by DOJ policy not to indict, not by the evidence.

    Of course, if Mueller testifies, we should get greater clarity on how much his decision not to recommend indictment was based on DOJ policy, and how much was based on the evidence itself. This may well be the driving force of Trumps current attempts to prevent Mueller from testifying. He doesn't want the issue clarified.




    Jim
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

  2. #12
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
    That is an odd reply CP. I honestly have no idea how you intend to apply it here. The comment you pulled out and replied to refers to a stance by BTC that is fundamentally immoral - essentially 'might makes right'.

    Jim
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

  3. #13
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That is an odd reply CP. I honestly have no idea how you intend to apply it here. The comment you pulled out and replied to refers to a stance by BTC that is fundamentally immoral - essentially 'might makes right'.

    Jim
    Your war on Trump is an odd war, Jim. But fight on! It has become who you are.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

  4. Amen Bill the Cat, MaxVel, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  5. #14
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I agree.

    But it wasn't blindly dismissed. It was carefully investigated and considered, by Mueller and Barr. Who decided there was no obstruction. How many do-overs do you expect? Until someone agrees with you? That seems to be the democrats thinking, just keep rehashing the same thing over and over till they get the answer they want, or Trump isn't President anymore. I bet if Trump loses the election next year this whole controversy will disappear as fast as Hillary's did. Because the purpose isn't about the truth, it is all about making Trump as ineffective as possible and cause as much disruption and distraction as they can until he is replaced. And you feed right into that mindset.
    'Do over' is Trumps nomenclature attempting to obfuscate the fact that Mueller left us with two seemingly contradictory claims about obstruction. Further, it is obvious to nearly everyone reading the report that there were an large number of actions by Trump that certainly look like they are obstruction. And this letter shows that appearance is not merely an artifact of our general lack of legal expertise in evaluating the evidence. It is real. The fact that the evidence presented in the report in fact defines actions that should have resulted in an indictment as viewed by 400+ federal prosecutors means that Mueller's two pronged comment about obstruction also has real meaning. One can't separate them. That these prosecutors hail from many different backgrounds points to this letter not being a partisan opinion but rather a legal one, and the light it sheds on Muellers comments is that: (1) most likely the 'no crime' comment is a technicality driven by DOJ policy, and (2) the 'does not exonerate' is in fact an appeal to those that do have the power to act - congress.


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-07-2019 at 09:52 AM.
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

  6. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Your war on Trump is an odd war, Jim. But fight on! It has become who you are.
    On the contrary, your willingness to characterize real issues as unimportant if they involve Trump (and/or if I am the one to point them out) is the truly odd thing here CP.
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

  7. #16
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Mueller's declaration has two elements, not one. There is not sufficient evidence to charge with a crime, nor can he be cleared of wrongdoing.
    Right, and if a prosecutor were to stand before a judge and say, "Your honor, we do not have sufficient evidence to charge the accused, but we can't exonerate him, either," you know what the judge will say?

    "Not guilty."



    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Of course, if Mueller testifies, we should get greater clarity on how much his decision not to recommend indictment was based on DOJ policy...
    It's ultimately a moot point.

    "After reviewing the Special Counsel's final report on these issues; consulting with Department officials, including the Office of Legal Counsel; and applying the principles of federal prosecution that guide our charging decisions, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president."

    -Attorney General William Barr
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  8. #17
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    'Do over' is Trumps nomenclature attempting to obfuscate the fact that Mueller left us with two seemingly contradictory claims about obstruction. Further, it is obvious to nearly everyone reading the report that there were an large number of actions by Trump that certainly look like they are obstruction. And this letter shows that appearance is not merely an artifact of our general lack of legal expertise in evaluating the evidence. It is real. The fact that the evidence presented in the report in fact defines actions that should have resulted in an indictment as viewed by 400+ federal prosecutors means that Mueller's two pronged comment about obstruction also has real meaning. One can't separate them. That these prosecutors hail from many different backgrounds points to this letter not being a partisan opinion but rather a legal one, and the light it sheds on Muellers comments is that: (1) most likely the 'no crime' comment is a technicality driven by DOJ policy, and (2) the 'does not exonerate' is in fact an appeal to those that do have the power to act - congress.


    Jim
    Like CP said, carry on Jim. I see there is no reasoning with you regarding Trump.

  9. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  10. #18
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    On the contrary, your willingness to characterize real issues as unimportant if they involve Trump (and/or if I am the one to point them out) is the truly odd thing here CP.
    Show me where I've "characterized real issues as unimportant if they involve Trump"!

    You are becoming JimL - if I don't hate Trump as rabidly as you do, then I'm a "Trump supporter". It's not the least bit odd that I'm not here every day, day in and day out, attacking Trump, knowing that it isn't accomplishing a thing.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

  11. #19
    tWebber guacamole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    t's not the least bit odd that I'm not here every day, day in and day out, attacking Trump, knowing that it isn't accomplishing a thing.
    It's a "discussion board." Talking about stuff and not accomplishing anything is what we do.
    "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
    Hear my cry, hear my shout,
    Save me, save me"

  12. Amen Sparko, Roy, Chaotic Void amen'd this post.
  13. #20
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole View Post
    It's a "discussion board." Talking about stuff and not accomplishing anything is what we do.
    Well, yeah, there's that. I'm just not accustomed to seeing somebody so fixed on one topic or person that it steals their joy, defines who they are...
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

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