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Thread: 400+ prosecutors sign a letter noting POTUS absent DOJ policy not to indict POTUS

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Like CP said, carry on Jim. I see there is no reasoning with you regarding Trump.
    There are people being unreasonable here, but I am not one of them. And as a point of fact, MM is NOT one of them either. He is discussing the issue. There is nothing harsh, crazy, over the top, or in anyway irrational about what I've said in this thread. What is irrational is to characterize my end of the conversation as you have in this post. Likewise CP.

    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  2. #22
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    There are people being unreasonable here, but I am not one of them.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Right, and if a prosecutor were to stand before a judge and say, "Your honor, we do not have sufficient evidence to charge the accused, but we can't exonerate him, either," you know what the judge will say?

    "Not guilty."

    But the situation is not a court of law unless impeachment proceedings begin. Mueller left open, even prodded further action by congress that he is incapable of initiaiting.

    It's ultimately a moot point.

    "After reviewing the Special Counsel's final report on these issues; consulting with Department officials, including the Office of Legal Counsel; and applying the principles of federal prosecution that guide our charging decisions, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president."

    -Attorney General William Barr
    But, in fact, they are not the ones that make the decisions regarding congressional actions such as impeachment. So it is not a moot point unless Congress is satisfied it is a moot point.

    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  4. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Anyone can pretend the other fellow is being unreasonable. And you've not even offered a discussion. You in specific did not even enter the conversation - you just made an obscure scriptural reference that had no perceivable connection to the conversation at that point. Then you accused me of being at war with trump - in response to me calmly asking what your reference meant because it made no sense to me.

    That is not just unreasonable, it is nearly unintelligible. As I said - the problem isn't me at this point.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-07-2019 at 11:32 AM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  5. #25
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Anyone can pretend the other fellow is being unreasonable.
    Sure, that's what is is... we're all pretending.

    And you've not even offered a discussion. You in specific did not even enter the conversation - you just made an obscure scriptural reference that had no perceivable connection to the conversation at that point.
    God has everything under control - He's fully aware of who Trump is, and my job is to pray for the leaders of our nation. I pray for Trump daily, without fail. I very OFTEN don't like what he says or does, but I'm not his judge, and neither are you. Trump will ultimately answer to God.

    Then you accused me of being at war with trump
    It's pretty much all you ever post about!

    - in response to me calmly asking what your reference meant because it made no sense to me.
    Jim, Trump is living rent-free in your head - he pretty much controls everything you do here on Tweb - it has become "who you are".

    That is not just unreasonable, it is nearly unintelligible. As I said - the problem isn't me at this point.

    Jim
    Of course not - you're the only sane and rational one on Tweb.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
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  6. #26
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Anyone can pretend the other fellow is being unreasonable.
    Just so you are aware, Jim, we're not pretending. We're so convinced that you're being unreasonable that we no longer bother to attempt rational conversation with you.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  7. Amen Mountain Man, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  8. #27
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Show me where I've "characterized real issues as unimportant if they involve Trump"!
    1) you cut short my quote, changing it's meaning enough that (2) below would be distorted without using the full quote

    2) The presdident committing obstruction of justice is a real issue. dismissing it as 'my personal war' on trump is 'characterizing a real issue as unimportant is they involve Trump (and/or if I am the one to point them out)"

    You are becoming JimL - if I don't hate Trump as rabidly as you do, then I'm a "Trump supporter". It's not the least bit odd that I'm not here every day, day in and day out, attacking Trump, knowing that it isn't accomplishing a thing.

    No CP. You are becoming more and more irrationally positioned to go off the deep end anytime I mention the name 'Trump' in a thread or a post. the only one losing control, becoming obsessed, is you - as evidenced by your incapacity to engage me in a rational way on a topic involving Trump. Why don't you just not even join a conversation if this sort of ad hominem rabbit trail is all you have to offer - ok?


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-07-2019 at 11:43 AM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  9. #28
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    There are people being unreasonable here, but I am not one of them. And as a point of fact, MM is NOT one of them either. He is discussing the issue. There is nothing harsh, crazy, over the top, or in anyway irrational about what I've said in this thread. What is irrational is to characterize my end of the conversation as you have in this post. Likewise CP.

    Jim
    You are basically denying the fact that Trump is not guilty of obstruction as determined by the people in charge of the investigation and claiming he is because "400+" other people who don't know the case and haven't seen the evidence say he is. That is irrational. And nothing anyone can say will change your mind on it. That is unreasonable. And it is over the top.

    Your view on Trump is very black and white. He is evil incarnate apparently. And anyone who appears to defend him seems to be complicit in his evil according to you.

    So I don't see what the point is to argue with you on this matter. Personally I don't think Trump is a great guy. He has flaws. He lies, he exaggerates, he is an narcissist. But I don't think he conspired with Russia, and I don't think he obstructed the investigation. I do think he is trying to do good as president and trying to keep his promises. And I think the democrats are doing everything in their power to interfere with him to keep him as ineffective as possible. This whole witch hunt is part of that. They are the obstructionists. Not Trump.

  10. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No CP. You are becoming more and more irrationally positioned to go off the deep end anytime I mention the name 'Trump' in a thread or a post...
    Yes, I'm "going off the deep end" and you're being totally rational.

    Why don't you just not even join a conversation if this sort of ad hominem rabbit trail is all you have to offer - ok?
    I'll try, but it's like a train wreck in motion --- I can't stop looking. But I'll try harder.

    Unsubscribing.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  12. #30
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You are basically denying the fact that Trump is not guilty of obstruction as determined by the people in charge of the investigation and claiming he is because "400+" other people who don't know the case and haven't seen the evidence say he is. That is irrational. And nothing anyone can say will change your mind on it. That is unreasonable. And it is over the top.
    But that isn't what was said.

    (1) The 400+ were not simply other people, they are current or former federal prosecutors. That makes your summary significantly different from that actual content of my OP. Why does it make it different? Because they are immensely qualified to assess the evidence and determine if it actually constitutes obstruction, unlike most 'other people'

    (2) Their opinion is not based on 'evidence not seen', but rather that evidence presented in the Mueller report itself - the same report Barr was using on which to base his own assessment. So there is a sound basis for their conclusion. And their conclusion is contrary to that of Barr who was hand selected by the president and who has shown himself anything but impartial in these matters.

    (3) Meuller made a statement that is ambivalent in its complete form as regards obstruction. That is, on the one hand he says the evidence doesn't prove there was a crime, yet OTOH it doesn't clear him either.


    Your summary is both incomplete and inaccurate. Based on the actual point of the OP as corrected in points 1,2 and 3, there is nothing irrational about recognizing the fact that Mueller's summary is quite clearly influenced by the policy not to indict, and that the report's summary's is at best inconsistent with the evidence presented in the report, as assessed by over 400 federal prosecutors. So much so they believed a they should participate in a signed letter to that effect. IOW, they believed this was an important enough issue that they should lend their own authority and expertise to the opinion that the report DOES show a clear pattern of obstruction on Trump's part.

    Your view on Trump is very black and white. He is evil incarnate apparently. And anyone who appears to defend him seems to be complicit in his evil according to you.
    And this is also a distortion. Trump has committed numerous truly immoral acts. I have only addressed actions and situations that are clearly exactly that. But I have always emphasized that it is the support of Trump IN THOSE IMMORAL ACTS that I have called people to task over.

    So I don't see what the point is to argue with you on this matter. Personally I don't think Trump is a great guy. He has flaws. He lies, he exaggerates, he is an narcissist. But I don't think he conspired with Russia, and I don't think he obstructed the investigation. I do think he is trying to do good as president and trying to keep his promises. And I think the democrats are doing everything in their power to interfere with him to keep him as ineffective as possible. This whole witch hunt is part of that. They are the obstructionists. Not Trump.
    Well, if you will look back at what this thread is, you will see that the topic is actually the opinion of these federal prosecutors concerning the evidence. So if you could find a way to stick to the OP rather than wondering off into why you don't like me personally, a reasoned discussion would be possible.

    MM has been reasoning with me, and I have not done anything in response to his points other than address them logically as I see them. The same has been true of every other person posting up to the point the content became personal attacks directed at me.


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-07-2019 at 03:06 PM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

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