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The strange greatness of Donald Trump

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  • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    I posted the facts of the lack of the enforcement of the emoluments clause on ACTUAL gifts from foreign dignitaries to George Washington while he was President. The Constitution's ink was still damp. Of all people, those who wrote it would know how to interpret it, and they declined on something (2 things) that clearly violate your over-reading of it. Add to that the fact that Trump's hotels have given to the Treasury every penny of profit made from foreign dignitaries staying at his hotel, and you have actual and real facts that flat out rebut your claim. And you handwave all of that as an excuse. You've reached pathetic levels, Jim.
    It doesn't matter BTC if George Washington violated it in some small way. This is NOT some small thing. This is millions of dollars of profit from the hotel, and the implication - realized or not - is potential payment for access to the President.

    Again, Always the excuse. Never a sober and objective reflection on the reality.


    Jim
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      hybrid?
      Nope. Good old fashioned combustion engine technology. It's a year 2000 Echo. Approaching 300,000 miles, and it still runs great.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        It doesn't matter BTC if George Washington violated it in some small way. This is NOT some small thing. This is millions of dollars of profit from the hotel, and the implication - realized or not - is potential payment for access to the President.

        Again, Always the excuse. Never a sober and objective reflection on the reality.


        Jim
        They are either in denial or they are complicit, they need to come up with excuses in either case.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          My feelings have nothingeverything to do with.
          Fixed that for you, no charge.

          Want proof? Here you go:
          As Trump said, he could kill a person in cold blood and you wouldn't care.

          Jim
          As has been pointed out to you a plenitude of times already, this is something called hyperbole. Your feelings patently prevent you from recognizing it.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            It doesn't matter BTC if George Washington violated it in some small way.
            Some small way??? It was a DIRECT violation according to your lunacy. That painting that now resides at Mount Vernon is worth millions!! I should be the one accusing YOU of excuses!

            This is NOT some small thing.
            Yes it is. Trump is not receiving any gifts from foreign dignitaries. He is selling them a product for the same rate as he sells it to anyone else. The Emoluments clause does not cover commerce. Only actual gifts.

            This is millions of dollars of profit from the hotel,
            Citation please.

            and the implication - realized or not - is potential payment for access to the President.
            No it isn't. Unless it can be shown that they stayed for free, which they didn't. Emoluments were never considered a part of commerce.

            Again, Always the excuse.
            Again, the facts show your TrumpOCD shining brightly for all the world to see.

            Never a sober and objective reflection on the reality.
            Never an objective reflection on your lack of clothes, Mr. Emperor...
            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            - Stephen R. Donaldson

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              They are either in denial or they are complicit, they need to come up with excuses in either case.
              Not surprised you don't recognize facts either...
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                When it comes to congressional oversight you don't need proof. You need a president acting in ways that indicate he is abusing his power. The three branches of government serve to keep each other in check. They have a large number of reasons to suspect he is out of line, and one of the functions of congress is to make sure he is not out of line. And if he is, it is their responsibility to take him out of office.

                Jim
                You would need enough evidence to support the investigation that a specific crime is being committed. The President is a citizen and has the same rights of privacy and against unlawful search and seizure as anyone else. They can't just claim they don't like what he is doing and go on a fishing expedition to try to find something actionable. That's crazy.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  It is a conflict of interest and a clear violation of the Emoluments Clause of the constitution:

                  Source: Emoluments Clause


                  “[N]o Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States], shall, without the Consent of the
                  Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or
                  foreign State.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  Jim
                  Since he is charging them rent, how would it be a gift? And he is not personally getting any profit from it.
                  Last edited by Sparko; 05-24-2019, 10:42 AM.

                  Comment


                  • emolument is received payment (including wages) for goods or services provided.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      You would need enough evidence to support the investigation that a specific crime is being committed. The President is a citizen and has the same rights of privacy and against unlawful search and seizure as anyone else. They can't just claim they don't like what he is doing and go on a fishing expedition to try to find something actionable. That's crazy.
                      He is clearly receiving payment "of any sort" from foreign dignitaries. That is evidence of violation of the Emoluments clause and is sufficient to invoke a congressional investigation.

                      And evidence is not proof Sparko. If he's clearly running around in the shadows there is reason to invoke oversight. Not to mention stonewalling every request. It may be just a game he's playing, but nevertheless, they have plenty or reasons at this point to believe he has something to hide and it is their responsibility to ensure that something to hide does not endanger the security and sovereignty of the United States.

                      And the reality is, once you hold a position like the president, where you have access to information that can threaten the security and sovereignty of the US, you literally sign away your right to privacy on those matters. Ask ANYONE with a security clearance. You have an affair and you have a security clearance - you don't have to tell your wife. But you don't tell your security people about and you can find yourself in a whole heap a trouble.

                      Bottom line: Donald Trump does not have any right to privacy on matters that threaten or potentially threaten the security and sovereignty of the US.

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        He is clearly receiving payment "of any sort" from foreign dignitaries. That is evidence of violation of the Emoluments clause and is sufficient to invoke a congressional investigation.

                        And evidence is not proof Sparko. If he's clearly running around in the shadows there is reason to invoke oversight. Not to mention stonewalling every request. It may be just a game he's playing, but nevertheless, they have plenty or reasons at this point to believe he has something to hide and it is their responsibility to ensure that something to hide does not endanger the security and sovereignty of the United States.

                        And the reality is, once you hold a position like the president, where you have access to information that can threaten the security and sovereignty of the US, you literally sign away your right to privacy on those matters. Ask ANYONE with a security clearance. You have an affair and you have a security clearance - you don't have to tell your wife. But you don't tell your security people about and you can find yourself in a whole heap a trouble.

                        Bottom line: Donald Trump does not have any right to privacy on matters that threaten or potentially threaten the security and sovereignty of the US.

                        Jim
                        But they have nothing but a hatred of Trump as their "evidence" - They don't like him or what he says or does. That is not enough evidence to try to go digging in his personal files and finances. They would need a direct link. If they are worried about the hotel, the IRS can check it out. Like someone said earlier, he is giving any profit made to the USA.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          But they have nothing but a hatred of Trump as their "evidence" - They don't like him or what he says or does. That is not enough evidence to try to go digging in his personal files and finances. They would need a direct link. If they are worried about the hotel, the IRS can check it out. Like someone said earlier, he is giving any profit made to the USA.
                          That's absurd. Trump is completely off the rails. Letting Barr override intelligence agency classifications. Running aforementioned hotel. Stonewalling subpoenas and encouraging others to do so?

                          But there is no point in mentioning what Trump has done that would have impeached or imprisoned ANYONE else. When it comes to Trump's supporters, as he said, he could shoot someone in the street and his supporters would not blink an eye.


                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            That's absurd. Trump is completely off the rails.
                            well that is your and the democrat's opinion anyway.

                            Letting Barr override intelligence agency classifications.
                            Not sure what you mean by that.

                            Running aforementioned hotel.
                            They can investigate the Hotel then. Send in the IRS.

                            Stonewalling subpoenas and encouraging others to do so?
                            which ones? The one for Barr was basically illegal for instance. Trying to force him to break the law in his testimony.

                            if anyone is completely off the rails it is the House of Representative Democrats.

                            But there is no point in mentioning what Trump has done that would have impeached or imprisoned ANYONE else. When it comes to Trump's supporters, as he said, he could shoot someone in the street and his supporters would not blink an eye.


                            Jim
                            That is just a handwave dismissal there Jim.

                            I don't see anything that would require congress to have access to Trump's personal finances.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                              emolument is received payment (including wages) for goods or services provided.
                              And since Trump himself is not directly receiving the payment for the rooms, it isn't an emolument.
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                And since Trump himself is not directly receiving the payment for the rooms, it isn't an emolument.
                                Oh - I do agree. As I said in an earlier post, if your politician owns a bakery and a foreign diplomat buys one of the bakery's doughnuts - emolument!
                                That's how those wanting to hit Trump for emoluments want it to work, anyway.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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