The strange greatness of Donald Trump

[oxmixmudd]

Yes, which is to say that he's continuing something that was done under Obamacare which was sold on the lie that health insurance and healthcare are synonymous before pulling the rug out from under people who needed it most (cancer patients have been hit especially hard by Obama's "bait and switch").

And let us suppose you can find equivalences in the creation of some aspects of the ACA (though I'd need some time to figure out if this is more a consequence of poor planning or implementation over the same sort of blatent deception we see in the Tillis bill).

Does that make what Tillis is doing right? Does that make my statement that he is lying to try to undo one of the most important provisions of the ACA wrong?

More to the point, the above comment having even an ounce of relevance hinges on your assumption I am somehow defending the ACA as a whole. And that is wrong. I'm only defending this specific aspect of it and calling out the republicans who are lying to try to undo this aspect of it. The way the pre-existing conditions clause was handled before the ACA has ALWAYS been wrong, and if the ACA did nothing else right - they did that part of it right. Insurance companies should never have been allowed to leverage the pre-existing condition clauses to force people to lose coverage for treatment they otherwise had when they lost a job or just got a better job using a different insurance provider.



Jim

ETA: And you are doing your own bait and switch. That link is talking about problems in an entirely different sort of category than what Tillis is doing. Again, there is no equivalence, even though you are claiming there is one. As I said before, implementing something like the ACA is bound to have mistakes made, policies that need adjusting and so on. Red tape and paperwork mistakes, policies that looked good on paper but lead to intractable problems, that sort of stuff is going to happen and is not evidence of lying. Tillis is just plain flat up-front lying.

[carpedm9587]

Oh, I know, any source that contests something you want to believe is dismissed with the wave of a hand.

It's OK, this is expected behavior from you.

Says the king of of hand-waving...

[carpedm9587]

Yes, which is to say that he's continuing something that was done under Obamacare which was sold on the lie that health insurance and healthcare are synonymous before pulling the rug out from under people who needed it most (cancer patients have been hit especially hard by Obama's "bait and switch").

So if we accept the accusation about the ACA, for the sake of argument, you seem to be suggesting "the ACA did it - so it's OK for Republicans to do it too!"

Not a very strong argument...

[Mountain Man]

Does that make what Tillis is doing right? Does that make my statement that he is lying to try to undo one of the most important provisions of the ACA wrong?

I never said that Tillis was right. I'm just pointing out the irony of you blasting him and praising Obamacare despite them both pulling the exact same bait-and-switch.

But this is turning into a merry-go-round, so I'm hopping off. I've made my point even if some people (gee, who could I be thinking of? ) refuse to acknowledge it.

[carpedm9587]

I never said that Tillis was right. I'm just pointing out the irony of you blasting him and praising Obamacare despite them both pulling the exact same bait-and-switch.

But this is turning into a merry-go-round, so I'm hopping off. I've made my point even if some people (gee, who could I be thinking of? ) refuse to acknowledge it.

Only in your mind, MM... only in your mind.

[oxmixmudd]

I never said that Tillis was right. I'm just pointing out the irony of you blasting him and praising Obamacare despite them both pulling the exact same bait-and-switch.

But this is turning into a merry-go-round, so I'm hopping off. I've made my point even if some people (gee, who could I be thinking of? ) refuse to acknowledge it.

You know nothing I have said is a general defense of Obamacare itself, and it is shameful for you to pretend it is. I've defended the ACA provision that requires insurance not to refuse coverage for pre-existing conditions while pointing out the Tillis is explicitly lying about whether or not his bill will continue to support that policy.

And no you haven't made your point - you've just pulled the parts of my posts that are contrary to the misleading point you want to make so you can pretend to have made a point.

In short, there is no equivalence here. Your examples that you've tried to equate to Tillis' action are not out and out lies, they are process or policy mistakes or conflicts. And that is not defending those policiy mistakes or conflicts, it is just recognizing they are the consequences of the complexity of trying to implement something like the ACA. And in the case of your last post, mistakes that are attempting to be corrected.

Tillis is lying about what his bill will do relative to an existing, functional, and good provision of the ACA.

There is no equivalence that can be made.


Jim

[carpedm9587]

You know nothing I have said is a general defense of Obamacare itself, and it is shameful for you to pretend it is. I've defended the ACA provision that requires insurance not to refuse coverage for pre-existing conditions while pointing out the Tillis is explicitly lying about whether or not his bill will continue to support that policy.

And no you haven't made your point - you've just pulled the parts of my posts that are contrary to the misleading point you want to make so you can pretend to have made a point.

In short, there is no equivalence here. Your examples that you've tried to equate to Tillis' action are not out and out lies, they are process or policy mistakes or conflicts. And that is not defending those policiy mistakes or conflicts, it is just recognizing they are the consequences of the complexity of trying to implement something like the ACA. And in the case of your last post, mistakes that are attempting to be corrected.

Tillis is lying about what his bill will do relative to an existing, functional, and good provision of the ACA.

There is no equivalence that can be made.


Jim

The emphasized part is standard practice for MM. I'm not even sure why I engage with him anymore. When someone can make the lame argument he made concerning Trump's grasp of tariff's, you know you're pretty much in the land of the intransigent and discussion is largely pointless.

[Mountain Man]

Your examples that you've tried to equate to Tillis' action are not out and out lies, they are process or policy mistakes or conflicts.

Oh, right... and when Obama heard about these "mistakes" in the news, he was mad as hell, right?

(I know, I said I was hopping off, but this one was just too tempting to pass up. I'm done.)

[carpedm9587]

Oh, right... and when Obama heard about these "mistakes" in the news, he was mad as hell, right?

(I know, I said I was hopping off, but this one was just too tempting to pass up. I'm done.)

You don't appear to be any better at this "I'm done" thing than me!

[oxmixmudd]

Oh, right... and when Obama heard about these "mistakes" in the news, he was mad as hell, right?

(I know, I said I was hopping off, but this one was just too tempting to pass up. I'm done.)

How would I know? But what I do want to know is how you can be so flippant about what Tillis' bill is trying to do.


Jim

[firstfloor]

The Trump brand is covered in “horsie poo” - Trump-branded properties are underperforming - BBC news.

[Mountain Man]

I wouldn't have expected the BBC to use the term "horsie poo".

[Cow Poke]

You don't appear to be any better at this "I'm done" thing than me!

I'm hoping this is the thread where I promised not to return! I'm not here.

[firstfloor]

I wouldn't have expected the BBC to use the term "horsie poo".

That’s a quote from Cow Poke. We here are enjoying the Eurovision Song Contest and I thought to point out that AG Barr is a Scottish soft drinks manufacturer well known around the world for Irn Bru - made in Scotland from girders, and we have Madonna singing at the interval, c/w fashion eye patch.

[Cow Poke]

That’s a quote from Cow Poke.

Awww, shucks - I'm flattered! (though it wasn't actually a quote)