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The strange greatness of Donald Trump

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Are you trying to say Carpe is verbose?
    Just that apparently my posts have more content than his according to his proportional response rule.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Simple question Carp, are more regulations and higher taxes generally better or worse for business growth?

      This is one of those deals where I typically end up getting slammed by both sides. It's not one or the other.

      1) Regulation introduces costs to business and reduces their profits.
      2) Big business has a very long history of environmental and human abuse in the name of profit.


      2 means we MUST have governmental regulation of business. But 1 means we must have a balanced approach to that regulation that recognizes there is a significant impact when the economy tanks as well.

      On the whole I am glad we have a lot of the regulation we do. I don't know now many times the only reason a business was fair to me or in our dealings only because if they weren't the government would hit them hard. And I would never want to see a return to the sort of mill town/company debt model that made many mill and mine workers virtual slaves to the companies they worked for.

      On the whole I am glad we have environmental regulation. Industry would never have incurred the costs to clean up their acts and avoid polluting the air rivers and streams without it.

      At the same time, when the regulation is so austere that it becomes impossible to make a profit, there has to be a recognition that things can never be perfect, and that in the regulation often comes a different form a abuse. And that there is no simple, one size fits all solution.

      However, THIS administration is pushing back NECESSARY regulation that I tend to think will have very negative impact on the environment. And that is bad. Too bad common sense, moderate approaches to problems that try to weigh all the variables, not just one side or the other, simply doesn't exist in politics.


      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        My schedule has finally slowed down a bit -- are you up for lunch?
        Yeah do you recall my email? It changed when I moved. I will look for yours

        Comment


        • #34
          Yes indeed; the great strangeness of Donald Trump, now going wildly out of control. I suppose you realise that your grandfathers would have hanged the lot of you.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Yes indeed; the great strangeness of Donald Trump, now going wildly out of control. I suppose you realise that your grandfathers would have hanged the lot of you.
            Grandfathers love their grandchildren even more than their own children. If we knew how much fun the grandchildren would be, we would have had them first.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              So I'd be curious how you measure this claim for Trump. The last year for which we have statistics that I can find is 2015. Abortion dropped 26% between 2006 and 2015. Among teenagers the drop was more than 50%. So what, exactly, has Trump done?

              Hi Carpe, I admit that abortion has become less popular among younger women and that is because imaging technologies now show a well formed human at 8 weeks with a beating heart. Such views make people realize that a fetus is not a lump of tissue. So the decline you mention is welcome and due to that. (my wife worked in a pregnancy counselling center and I learned loads from her)


              I would suggest that you don't know what Trump has down wrt abortion because you don't want to know. The information is easily available but because of your hatred of Trump you can't see anything good that he has done.


              But you asked what has Trump done:

              1, April 13, 2017 signed a congressional bill reversing Obama's regulation prohibiting states from discriminating against abortion clinics. States were refusing to fund planned parenthood and Obama tried to stop that with a law, and Trump signed the repeal of that law---Are you against this action of Trump?


              2. Jan 23, 2017 Trump re-instated the Mexico City Policy which had the effect of defunding Planned Parenthood and other foreign organizations which promote abortions overseas.---are you against this action of Trumps?


              3. April 4, 2017 halted US funding of UN population fund which partially funds China's one-child policy which has resulting in millions of baby girls being aborted so they can have sons. ---are you against this Trump policy?

              4. he has appointed more pro-life advocates to the Department of Health and Human services. He appointed Dr. Charmaine Yoest, a strong pro-life advocate and the former president of Americans United for Life, to the position of assistant secretary of public affairs for the Department of Health and Human Services, replacing a strong Planned Parenthood supporter.==are you against this Trump policy?

              5. May 15, 2017 Trump broadened the scope of the Mexico City Policy to restrict funding to any international health organization performing abortions.--are you against this Trump policy?

              6. Octo 1, 2017 Down syndrome people are preferentially aborted. Trump became the first president since Clinton to recognize Down Syndrome Awareness month. My wife had a Down's uncle who lived a wonderful, loved life until age 66. Even Downs people have a right to life--are you against this trump policy?


              7. Nov 2017 Proclaimed National Adoption month saying that "no child in America born or unborn--is unwanted or unloved." ---are you suggesting that Trump should have said all children in America born or unborn are unwanted and unloved?


              8 Jan 19,2018 HHS rescinded more regulations that made it hard for states to defund planned parenthood. And protected employees of hospitals from being forced to perform abortions against their consciences.---are you against this Trump policy?


              9. Feb 23 2018 changed Title X family planning grants to prohibit grants from being used for abortions--are you against this Trump policy?


              10. April 20,2018 Ended Obama's policy of listing abortion as a 'human right' in State Department's human rights report--are you against this Trump policy?


              11. Nov 7 2018 finalized 2 rules allowing employeres with religious objections to opt out of Obamacare's contraceptive mandate.==Do you think Catholic employers should be forced to pay for contraception against their religious belief?


              12. Dec 10, 2018 NIH offered 20 million in grants to look for alternatives to fetal tissue research in medicine.--are you against this policy, Carpe or do you think we need to kill babies to advance science?


              I could go on but this is enough. Carpe I didn't know you were pro abortion cause by opposing Trump you automatically help the other side.



              Trump's racism is well documented and predates his occupation of his current office. I'd also be curious how you attribute these historical lows to Trump. As with most economic stories, the drop in black unemployment was well underway before Trump took office. It dropped from a peak of 16.8% in March of 2010 (when unemployment in general peaked) to 7.7% in January of 2017, the last month Obama was in office. That's a drop of 8.1 points in about 7 years. It has dropped one more point to the current 6.7 (thought it did go all the way to 6.0 before popping back up) in 2+ years. So if you are attributing unemployment levels to presidential policies, Obama policies accounted for 8.1 points of drop at a rate of slightly more than 1 point per year, and Trump policies have accounted for 1 point of drop at a rate of less than one half point per year.

              I strongly disagree that Trump is a racist. Racists don't give presidential freedom medals to black golfers while giving a speech praising the man. As to the black unemployment, the chart at the link should be plotted from 1995 through 2019 rather than just 2009 to 2019 which is what you looked at. If you do that, you will see that Black unemployement went sky high in the last recession and was falling from that extremely high level. Indeed, this level was the 2nd highest black unemployment level in history and it occurred on Obama's watch, starting to drop ONLY in Obama's 2nd term and had not reached Bush levels by 2016. Trump's policies have brought that unemployement to a record low for Blacks. That is a GOOD thing.

              So, Carpe, do you think Blacks should have fewer jobs? Why are you not happy that this has happened for them?



              The rest of these I cannot find data for, but I find it a little hard to believe Trump is the first to tackle any of these issues. Indeed, it's not even clear to me exactly how Trump IS tackling these issues...

              Frankly, Carpe if you had but expended that Bureau of Labor Statistic Chart you would have had a better understanding so maybe you just don't really want to know good things about Trump and so don't put the effort into finding good things about his admin. When we hate someone or some party we all are loathe to see any good in them at all. It is a human trait.
              Last edited by Cow Poke; 05-09-2019, 11:40 AM. Reason: replaced Jim with Carpe - the intended recipient

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                Yes indeed; the great strangeness of Donald Trump, now going wildly out of control. I suppose you realise that your grandfathers would have hanged the lot of you.
                firstfloor, I like your cat picture.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  Yes indeed; the great strangeness ....
                  Stranger in the night, she's weird in daytime, but she's stranger in the night...
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                    Hi Jim, I admit that abortion has become less popular among younger women and that is because imaging technologies now show a well formed human at 8 weeks with a beating heart. Such views make people realize that a fetus is not a lump of tissue. So the decline you mention is welcome and due to that. (my wife worked in a pregnancy counselling center and I learned loads from her)


                    I would suggest that you don't know what Trump has down wrt abortion because you don't want to know. The information is easily available but because of your hatred of Trump you can't see anything good that he has done.


                    But you asked what has Trump done:

                    1, April 13, 2017 signed a congressional bill reversing Obama's regulation prohibiting states from discriminating against abortion clinics. States were refusing to fund planned parenthood and Obama tried to stop that with a law, and Trump signed the repeal of that law---Are you against this action of Trump?


                    2. Jan 23, 2017 Trump re-instated the Mexico City Policy which had the effect of defunding Planned Parenthood and other foreign organizations which promote abortions overseas.---are you against this action of Trumps?


                    3. April 4, 2017 halted US funding of UN population fund which partially funds China's one-child policy which has resulting in millions of baby girls being aborted so they can have sons. ---are you against this Trump policy?

                    4. he has appointed more pro-life advocates to the Department of Health and Human services. He appointed Dr. Charmaine Yoest, a strong pro-life advocate and the former president of Americans United for Life, to the position of assistant secretary of public affairs for the Department of Health and Human Services, replacing a strong Planned Parenthood supporter.==are you against this Trump policy?

                    5. May 15, 2017 Trump broadened the scope of the Mexico City Policy to restrict funding to any international health organization performing abortions.--are you against this Trump policy?

                    6. Octo 1, 2017 Down syndrome people are preferentially aborted. Trump became the first president since Clinton to recognize Down Syndrome Awareness month. My wife had a Down's uncle who lived a wonderful, loved life until age 66. Even Downs people have a right to life--are you against this trump policy?


                    7. Nov 2017 Proclaimed National Adoption month saying that "no child in America born or unborn--is unwanted or unloved." ---are you suggesting that Trump should have said all children in America born or unborn are unwanted and unloved?


                    8 Jan 19,2018 HHS rescinded more regulations that made it hard for states to defund planned parenthood. And protected employees of hospitals from being forced to perform abortions against their consciences.---are you against this Trump policy?


                    9. Feb 23 2018 changed Title X family planning grants to prohibit grants from being used for abortions--are you against this Trump policy?


                    10. April 20,2018 Ended Obama's policy of listing abortion as a 'human right' in State Department's human rights report--are you against this Trump policy?


                    11. Nov 7 2018 finalized 2 rules allowing employeres with religious objections to opt out of Obamacare's contraceptive mandate.==Do you think Catholic employers should be forced to pay for contraception against their religious belief?


                    12. Dec 10, 2018 NIH offered 20 million in grants to look for alternatives to fetal tissue research in medicine.--are you against this policy, Jim or do you think we need to kill babies to advance science?


                    I could go on but this is enough. Jim I didn't know you were pro abortion cause by opposing Trump you automatically help the other side.






                    I strongly disagree that Trump is a racist. Racists don't give presidential freedom medals to black golfers while giving a speech praising the man. As to the black unemployment, the chart at the link should be plotted from 1995 through 2019 rather than just 2009 to 2019 which is what you looked at. If you do that, you will see that Black unemployement went sky high in the last recession and was falling from that extremely high level. Indeed, this level was the 2nd highest black unemployment level in history and it occurred on Obama's watch, starting to drop ONLY in Obama's 2nd term and had not reached Bush levels by 2016. Trump's policies have brought that unemployement to a record low for Blacks. That is a GOOD thing.

                    So, Jim, do you think Blacks should have fewer jobs? Why are you not happy that this has happened for them?






                    Frankly, Jim if you had but expended that Bureau of Labor Statistic Chart you would have had a better understanding so maybe you just don't really want to know good things about Trump and so don't put the effort into finding good things about his admin. When we hate someone or some party we all are loathe to see any good in them at all. It is a human trait.
                    Glenn, that was carpedm9587 you were responding to, not Jim (oxmixmudd) - just FYI

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Of course it was slowing from the previous growth under Obama, look at the previous 5 quarters, or average all the quarters before the last 7. It was better than the 1.4 average at the end of Obama's reign. And if you have negative growth for two consecutive quarters, which was where we were possibly heading, you have recession.
                      The average for the last four years of the Obama presidency was 2.4%, with massive swings between -1 and 5.1%. At the end of his presidency it stabilized for 5 quarters just below 2%.

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      And what has happened under Trump?
                      Under Trump, it averages 2.58 for the first four quarters, spiked to 4.2 when the tax cut impact hit, and has been shrinking for the last two quarters and is back down to 2.2%. The net average is 2.8%

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Yes, we don't always know. The economy was slowing though, it isn't now.
                      And the data does not support that claim, unless you narrow your focus to one small set of data. Unemployment was dropping. The deficit had dropped from its peak year over year, with a modest uptick in the last year. It has soared since. The labor participation rate tended to a downward slope until it bottomed in 2015 and began an upward climb at that point. It has trended slightly upwards since, but not significantly. Consumer confidence started increasing in 2009 and has steadily increased since.

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Simple question Carp, are more regulations and higher taxes generally better or worse for business growth?
                      More regulations tend to slow growth. However, I will quickly trade slower growth for cleaner air, addressing climate change, and providing for consumer protections. Money is not my primary metric.

                      And higher taxes can also slow growth, depending on what is being taxed and how. That is why I advocate for a flat tax on ALL income sources, one standard COL deduction maxed at 5 individuals, no other deductions, and no business taxes. But that doesn't make all tax cuts well done or well thought out. The one implemented by Trump and the Republicans was not designed to be "zero cost" - inflated the debt - and funneled massive increases into the pockets of the most wealthy members of our society (both as a raw number and as a percentage) while dolling out a pittance to the middle to lower classes - further aggravating wealth disparity in the U.S., doing nothing for infrastructure needs, ballooning the debt, and doing nothing to address the social ills that result from poverty.

                      All in all - it was badly done.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Sorry, I can't edit it any more

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                          Sorry, I can't edit it any more
                          Gotcha covered!
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            The average for the last four years of the Obama presidency was 2.4%, with massive swings between -1 and 5.1%. At the end of his presidency it stabilized for 5 quarters just below 2%.
                            Right it was going down in the last 7 quarters, and that was a 1.4 average. That is a full point drop.



                            Under Trump, it averages 2.58 for the first four quarters, spiked to 4.2 when the tax cut impact hit, and has been shrinking for the last two quarters and is back down to 2.2%. The net average is 2.8%
                            Right and the first quarter of 2019 was 3.2, which is good considering the trade wars. Which hopefully will end soon.


                            More regulations tend to slow growth. However, I will quickly trade slower growth for cleaner air, addressing climate change, and providing for consumer protections. Money is not my primary metric.

                            And higher taxes can also slow growth, depending on what is being taxed and how. That is why I advocate for a flat tax on ALL income sources, one standard COL deduction maxed at 5 individuals, no other deductions, and no business taxes. But that doesn't make all tax cuts well done or well thought out. The one implemented by Trump and the Republicans was not designed to be "zero cost" - inflated the debt - and funneled massive increases into the pockets of the most wealthy members of our society (both as a raw number and as a percentage) while dolling out a pittance to the middle to lower classes - further aggravating wealth disparity in the U.S., doing nothing for infrastructure needs, ballooning the debt, and doing nothing to address the social ills that result from poverty.

                            All in all - it was badly done.
                            Well I'm glad you agree that more taxation and regulation slow growth.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Gotcha covered!
                              Thanks Cow Poke, But that post should, but won't make Jim think "why am I opposing this guy?" I don't know Carpe's views on abortion but most atheists I know support it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                                Thanks Cow Poke, But that post should, but won't make Jim think "why am I opposing this guy?" I don't know Carpe's views on abortion but most atheists I know support it.
                                Carp has said he is against abortion...
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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