The strange greatness of Donald Trump

[Sparko]

Then I have to assume that you have not been looking. Fortune had a decent article during the campaign. You can find it here. There are others that a little bit of searching will easily locate. Beyond this, I'm really not going to waste my time documenting something you're just going to hand-wave away and then claim I'm "lying." I might was well just let you skip to "you're a liar" and save myself the work. More efficient!

If you notice I don't toss around the "liar" accusation lightly and only very rarely. And you are just doing your asserting something without evidence again and calling it "data". "oh everyone knows that! it's common knowledge. I don't need to support my claims!" That is what you routinely do, carp.

[carpedm9587]

Well you said that you are part Marxist and Socialist, so I assume you will vote for those who share your views, like comrade Bernie...

I think the right philosophy for the right problem. We have a socialistic economic approach to highway systems, education, social security (though flawed in its execution - creating what is essentially a government-sanctioned ponzi scheme), and medicare. I think a socialistic approach would successfully apply to all of healthcare and should be extended to secondary education to the baccalaureate level. I would not want a socialistic model for energy, entertainment, retail, or most other verticals. There I support a well-regulated capitalistic model. I'm not a fan of communism as Marx defines it (though there is some mixing of apples and oranges here - communism is primarily a political model. Capitalism is an economic model. Socialism can be either. I think we can achieve some of what Marx was concerned about using a carefully regulated capitalistic model.

The part of socialism I embrace is the common funding of fundamental needs that either the private sector does not want to engage in, or leaving it to the private sector becomes a formula for abuse. The part of Marxism I admire is the assurance he sought that each person would be compensated according to their ability and need, though I would modify it to say "at least according to his ability and need." Unlike Marx, I do not have a problem with wealth - nor do I think everyone should be paid the same. I have a problem when wealth becomes at the expense of others - and one person has to struggle for the needs of life while another basks in an abundance that was largely created by the work of others. It's not only a basic injustice - but it's stupid economic policy. Poverty drains a system. It not only makes no sense from a human-justice perspective - it makes no sense from an economic perspective.

[carpedm9587]

I've seen some, and some of it reflects the culture at the time, shameful as it was, and some of it is like him calling "ALL immigrants" (he didn't) rapists and gang members and monsters.... Included in several lists of "racist" claims I've found, there are a number of them where, for example, Trump refers to Muslims. Muslims are not a race.

What hurts this "Trump is a racist" claim is that the accusers often overshoot the runway by adding in any possible bad interpretation or representation of what he said, and pile that into what he actually did do or say.

No - Muslims are not a race. They are first a religion - and a religion that is closely tied to specific ethnicities. Trump's is not just a racist - he has prejudices against religions and ethnicities as well. It all just gets (incorrectly) lumped into "racist."

And yes - a lot of the complaints about Trump overshoot the mark. The "10,000 lies" of the WP is a good case in point. They lump misstatements, hyperbole, and much of his "puffery" under the umbrella of "lies." If you took all of that out, you'd probably come down to a couple thousand remaining. When they list all 10,000 and include all of the "edge" cases, they just give many on the right more ammunition to scream, "TDS!"

That being said, I do not remember a more dishonest or corrupt man in that office in my lifetime. He doesn't drink - and apparently he isn't cheating on his wife (now) - but that's about as good as it gets.

[Cow Poke]

No - Muslims are not a race.

Yes, they are not.

They are first a religion - and a religion that is closely tied to specific ethnicities.

Meh - I think that's a bit presumptive. A Muslim can be literally any ethnicity.

Trump's is not just a racist - he has prejudices against religions and ethnicities as well. It all just gets (incorrectly) lumped into "racist."

Yeah, because the people incorrectly using that term are PREJUDICED!

And yes - a lot of the complaints about Trump overshoot the mark. The "10,000 lies" of the WP is a good case in point. They lump misstatements, hyperbole, and much of his "puffery" under the umbrella of "lies." If you took all of that out, you'd probably come down to a couple thousand remaining. When they list all 10,000 and include all of the "edge" cases, they just give many on the right more ammunition to scream, "TDS!"

If you guys* would just stick with what is TRUE and documentable, instead of piling on, you'd have more credibility.

That being said, I do not remember a more dishonest or corrupt man in that office in my lifetime. He doesn't drink - and apparently he isn't cheating on his wife (now) - but that's about as good as it gets.

He's a Yankee! What can I say?



*just pokin - I'm kidding

[grmorton]

Carp has said he is against abortion...

I am delighted to hear that. Killing humans, young old or of a different group as in Rwanda, dehumanizes us all.

[grmorton]

No - Muslims are not a race. They are first a religion - and a religion that is closely tied to specific ethnicities. Trump's is not just a racist - he has prejudices against religions and ethnicities as well. It all just gets (incorrectly) lumped into "racist."

And yes - a lot of the complaints about Trump overshoot the mark. The "10,000 lies" of the WP is a good case in point. They lump misstatements, hyperbole, and much of his "puffery" under the umbrella of "lies." If you took all of that out, you'd probably come down to a couple thousand remaining. When they list all 10,000 and include all of the "edge" cases, they just give many on the right more ammunition to scream, "TDS!"

That being said, I do not remember a more dishonest or corrupt man in that office in my lifetime. He doesn't drink - and apparently he isn't cheating on his wife (now) - but that's about as good as it gets.

Carpe, I would agree with you that Trumps personal morals are not what they ought to be. And he is an insufferable braggart. But unlike almost all politicians, he has tried hard to do everything he told us he would do. And in my book, I can put up with the bragging, and roll my eyes a bit at him, if he keeps doing what I want. IMO absolutely every politician lies all the time. It is what they do that one needs to watch.


Edited to add, my wife is Lebanese so no one better accuse me of dislike of Arabs, but I view Islam like I view any other anti-Semitic philosophy. I see no reason to support the massive importation of anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish views in to our country. I don't care the race, be it Germans of the WWII variety, white supremacists, or believers in Islam, if you dislike another group, and it is culturally instilled in you, I don't want them in this country, we have had enough problems with racial strife in our past as it is.

[rogue06]

Carpe, I would agree with you that Trumps personal morals are not what they ought to be. And he is an insufferable braggart. But unlike almost all politicians, he has tried hard to do everything he told us he would do. And in my book, I can put up with the bragging, and roll my eyes a bit at him, if he keeps doing what I want. IMO absolutely every politician lies all the time. It is what they do that one needs to watch.


Edited to add, my wife is Lebanese so no one better accuse me of dislike of Arabs, but I view Islam like I view any other anti-Semitic philosophy. I see no reason to support the massive importation of anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish views in to our country. I don't care the race, be it Germans of the WWII variety, white supremacists, or believers in Islam, if you dislike another group, and it is culturally instilled in you, I don't want them in this country, we have had enough problems with racial strife in our past as it is.

I'll never forget George Stephanopoulos, while defending his boss Bill Clinton, revealed far more about politics that he likely intended when he proclaimed that "The President has kept all of the promises he intended to keep."

Glad to see you're still around and kicking.

[rogue06]

I've seen some, and some of it reflects the culture at the time, shameful as it was, and some of it is like him calling "ALL immigrants" (he didn't) rapists and gang members and monsters.... Included in several lists of "racist" claims I've found, there are a number of them where, for example, Trump refers to Muslims. Muslims are not a race.

What hurts this "Trump is a racist" claim is that the accusers often overshoot the runway by adding in any possible bad interpretation or representation of what he said, and pile that into what he actually did do or say.

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(I'll let Charles hyperventilate squawking about "whataboutism" wrt the second one )

[rogue06]

Yes, they are not.



Meh - I think that's a bit presumptive. A Muslim can be literally any ethnicity.

Back when we were kicking Saddam outta Iraq the MSM typically referred to the three biggest religious groups in that country as Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish.

The Kurds are not by any stretch of the imagination a religion. Most are Sunni.

[Cow Poke]

Back when we were kicking Saddam outta Iraq the MSM typically referred to the three biggest religious groups in that country as Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish.

The Kurds are not by any stretch of the imagination a religion. Most are Sunni.

Yeah, and it was funny how they were doing their best to sound like they knew the difference between an Apache helicopter and a Abrams Main Battle Tank.

[grmorton]

I'll never forget George Stephanopoulos, while defending his boss Bill Clinton, revealed far more about politics that he likely intended when he proclaimed that "The President has kept all of the promises he intended to keep."

Glad to see you're still around and kicking.

lol, that was rather unfortunate of the totally unbiased, democratic operative, oops I mean journalist to admit. It has been a rough year but still doing ok generally. All the usual treatments for my cancer stopped working so I have become a guinea pig. I just about lost the ability to walk due to a drug trial I was on, but getting it back. Don't think I will get it all back though. it didn't help the cancer, but hey, they have a great lameness pill there. On a new drug trial don't yet know if it is working, find out at end of the month. I have spent the last 5 years doing historical research--never stopped learning just changed the topic--got tired of the same old same old responses from the same old people here on creation/evolution and decided to do something more productive with my life.

[grmorton]

Possibly Biden. That seems the most likely right now. But it is way early in the cycle, so who knows what will happen. Personally, I wouldn't mind a Biden in the mix for four years. My primary concern is that he (like Trump) has a bit of a problem with having a reasonable governor on his mouth. If it is him and Trump in the GA, then I think we can expect a world of mudslinging.

He said today that we have a moral obligation to provide free health care for illegals. 1. we as a nation cant really afford it, 2. why do Vets and citizens have to take a back seat to the goodies the Dems want to dish out, and 3. who does Biden think he is representing? Citizens or illegals? That alone makes me very leery of Biden.

[seer]

lol, that was rather unfortunate of the totally unbiased, democratic operative, oops I mean journalist to admit. It has been a rough year but still doing ok generally. All the usual treatments for my cancer stopped working so I have become a guinea pig. I just about lost the ability to walk due to a drug trial I was on, but getting it back. Don't think I will get it all back though. it didn't help the cancer, but hey, they have a great lameness pill there. On a new drug trial don't yet know if it is working, find out at end of the month. I have spent the last 5 years doing historical research--never stopped learning just changed the topic--got tired of the same old same old responses from the same old people here on creation/evolution and decided to do something more productive with my life.

[Sparko]

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(I'll let Charles hyperventilate squawking about "whataboutism" wrt the second one )

Not to mention Hollywood and Democrats loved Trump before he ran for office and never once called him a racist. Yet supposedly all these racist things he did (at least according to the article carp linked to earlier) happened all during that time period.

[Cow Poke]

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(I'll let Charles hyperventilate squawking about "whataboutism" wrt the second one )

But SHE can talk in BlackVoice, so that's OK!