Jesus killed babies!?

[Christian3]

[Sparko]

God kills everyone. As does Allah. Doesn't he think Allah is in control of our lives and deaths? So doesn't Allah kill babies?

Doesn't he believe Allah flooded the earth killing everyone except Noah and his family?

[tabibito]

We also know what happens when people killed without a direct and personal command to do so. The violence inflicted in such circumstances returns on the heads of the violent.

[Christian3]

God kills everyone. As does Allah. Doesn't he think Allah is in control of our lives and deaths? So doesn't Allah kill babies?

Doesn't he believe Allah flooded the earth killing everyone except Noah and his family?

Did Jesus exist as a human being before He was born? If not, then Jesus as a human being cannot be read back into the Old Testament.

[ReformedApologist]

First, even the Quran mentions the wars of David and Saul so what is the problem?, secondly he needs to study Near Eastern War Rhetoric that use literary devices similar to the Biblical text. Third is God is the author and giver of life so does he not have the right to take it?. And finally God gave them years and years to repent Genesis 15:16-21.

[mikewhitney]

Jesus came not to judge the world but to save it.

We can also look that the aspect that Jesus had two aspects. There was Diety and there was humanity. The human aspect didn't exist until the conception and birth of Jesus.

Even the Noahic flood involved the goal of saving the world. The infected part had to be removed in order to save the world. In this case, the infected part included most of humanity.

Additionally, God has the power to give life and to take it. He is the potter and we are the clay. If you recognize Jesus as Deity, you are recognizing his authority to handle his creation according to his wisdom.

In all this, we are here to follow Jesus. We are restricted to live after the human example since we are not God. We see no examples of Jesus killing anyone.

[Sparko]

Did Jesus exist as a human being before He was born? If not, then Jesus as a human being cannot be read back into the Old Testament.

Jesus didn't exist as a human being, but God the Son did. Who became incarnate as Jesus. They are the same person.

[mikewhitney]

Is this Muslim saying that the killing of babies should be done by people today?

[Christian3]

Jesus didn't exist as a human being, but God the Son did. Who became incarnate as Jesus. They are the same person.

OK. The second person of the Trinity is God's Word (Son by relationship) and it is the Word/Son who incarnated Jesus at His conception.

So, it was not until Jesus' conception that the Word became flesh, which means that Jesus as a human being did not exist before He was born.

Which means this Muslim has a problem with one of God's decisions and not Jesus of Nazareth as a human being.

[Christian3]

Is this Muslim saying that the killing of babies should be done by people today?

His point is that Jesus is worse for killing babies than any violence by Allah in the Qur'an, and Muhammad.

[Sparko]

OK. The second person of the Trinity is God's Word (Son by relationship) and it is the Word/Son who incarnated Jesus at His conception.

So, it was not until Jesus' conception that the Word became flesh, which means that Jesus as a human being did not exist before He was born.

Which means this Muslim has a problem with one of God's decisions and not Jesus of Nazareth as a human being.

well your initial argument (the muslim's was: "Jesus is God and God ordered the killing of babies, so Jesus did" - while not technically true, "Jesus" wasn't there, God was as was God the son. So yeah God ordered the killing of infants. But then so did Allah.

[JonathanL]

OK. The second person of the Trinity is God's Word (Son by relationship) and it is the Word/Son who incarnated Jesus at His conception.

So, it was not until Jesus' conception that the Word became flesh, which means that Jesus as a human being did not exist before He was born.

Which means this Muslim has a problem with one of God's decisions and not Jesus of Nazareth as a human being.

Well, Jesus didn't exist as a human being before He was born, but He still existed as God the Son. God the Son didn't become a different person when He incarnated as a human, He took on human nature and the name Jesus. So everything God the Son did prior to His incarnation can still be attributed to the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

[Sparko]

[Christian3]

Well, Jesus didn't exist as a human being before He was born,

True.

but He still existed as God the Son.

No, Jesus became God the Son at the incarnation when Jesus was conceived.

God the Son didn't become a different person when He incarnated as a human, He took on human nature and the name Jesus.

Yes. The Word became flesh.

So everything God the Son did prior to His incarnation can still be attributed to the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

No it can't.

[Christian3]

You are talking about the second person of the Trinity.

Jesus of Nazareth as a human being could not do what he sees the Father doing anymore than you and I could.

It is the second person of the Trinity who is eternal, not Jesus as a human being.

Jesus' mother is not eternal and therefore Jesus could not possibly have existed as a human being before His own mother.

And that is why we cannot read Jesus of Nazareth as a human being back into the New Testament.