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Thread: Early head and heart

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Early head and heart

    Source: Reasons to Believe


    Paleontologists didn't expect to discover Fuxianhuia fossils with modern neural and cardiovascular systems in the early Cambrian. Researchers believe that this creature was one of the first arthropods. If so, then according to an evolutionary model, Fuxianhuia should display primitive systems, not the advanced ones of modern-day arthropods. Thus, the appearance of organisms with complex neural and cardiovascular systems further exacerbates the challenges facing the evolutionary paradigm, which requires much more time for the gradual emergence of animal phyla.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source


    Papers referenced are here and here.

    Source: Nature

    The early origin of sophisticated brains provides a probable driver for versatile visual behaviours, a view that accords with compound eyes from the early Cambrian that were, in size and resolution, equal to those of modern insects and malacostracans.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Source: Reasons to Believe


    Paleontologists didn't expect to discover Fuxianhuia fossils with modern neural and cardiovascular systems in the early Cambrian. Researchers believe that this creature was one of the first arthropods. If so, then according to an evolutionary model, Fuxianhuia should display primitive systems, not the advanced ones of modern-day arthropods. Thus, the appearance of organisms with complex neural and cardiovascular systems further exacerbates the challenges facing the evolutionary paradigm, which requires much more time for the gradual emergence of animal phyla.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source


    Papers referenced are here and here.

    Source: Nature

    The early origin of sophisticated brains provides a probable driver for versatile visual behaviours, a view that accords with compound eyes from the early Cambrian that were, in size and resolution, equal to those of modern insects and malacostracans.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Blessings,
    Lee
    Bold above, simply no. The Fuxianhuia evolved from earlier simply animals.

    My advise, stop making a fool of yourself looking fo rabbit fossils in Cambrian rocks. Your sources are bogus and not science.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

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    Frank

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  3. #3
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Source: Science

    The arthropod Fuxianhuia from the Chengjiang fauna displays primitive aspects of cephalic segmentation and trunk limb morphology that indicate a basal position within Euarthropoda.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    So which simpler animals did you mean?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Source: Science

    The arthropod Fuxianhuia from the Chengjiang fauna displays primitive aspects of cephalic segmentation and trunk limb morphology that indicate a basal position within Euarthropoda.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    So which simpler animals did you mean?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Are you attempting the fallacy of an 'argument from ignorance.' The old missing link fallacy. New discoveries just simply add more information in the evolution of animals in the Cambrian. There are numerous simpler animals older than the Fuxianhuia.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-10-2019 at 08:02 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Source: Reasons to Believe


    Paleontologists didn't expect to discover Fuxianhuia fossils with modern neural and cardiovascular systems in the early Cambrian. Researchers believe that this creature was one of the first arthropods. If so, then according to an evolutionary model, Fuxianhuia should display primitive systems, not the advanced ones of modern-day arthropods. Thus, the appearance of organisms with complex neural and cardiovascular systems further exacerbates the challenges facing the evolutionary paradigm, which requires much more time for the gradual emergence of animal phyla.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source


    Papers referenced are here and here.

    Source: Nature

    The early origin of sophisticated brains provides a probable driver for versatile visual behaviours, a view that accords with compound eyes from the early Cambrian that were, in size and resolution, equal to those of modern insects and malacostracans.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Blessings,
    Lee
    Just basing your argument on the selective reference of new discoveries that in and of themselves adds information to the theory of evolution without context of the overall knowledge of the fossil evidence of the Cambrian and PreCambrian is fundamentally unethical in science.

    It is obvious, and not meaningful, that science does not expect new discoveries.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-11-2019 at 07:14 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  6. #6
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Source: Reasons to Believe

    Researchers believe that this creature was one of the first arthropods. If so, then according to an evolutionary model, Fuxianhuia should display primitive systems, not the advanced ones of modern-day arthropods.
    Source

    © Copyright Original Source

    Sooooo, no real surprise given the source, but that's false. As the papers themselves make clear, we have almost no other soft tissues preserving those details from arthropods or any other animals. Thus, we don't even know what was "primitive" at the time. (Primitive is a terrible term, given that there's no objective standard for advanced, hence the quotes.)

    Were these common features at the time, but has only been maintained in arthropods? Does the arthropod lineage actually predate this species? Did all contemporary members of arthropoda share these features? Did the origin of these features define the arthropod lineage, and thus should be expected in this organism?

    We don't know because we simply don't have the data, as the papers themselves make clear.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  7. Amen Seeker amen'd this post.
  8. #7
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    Thus, we don't even know what was "primitive" at the time. (Primitive is a terrible term, given that there's no objective standard for advanced, hence the quotes.)
    Well, primitive, as opposed to modern brains and cardiovascular systems.

    Were these common features at the time, but has only been maintained in arthropods?
    Don't know that this matters, though, what would be of interest here is why such modern systems appear so early.

    Does the arthropod lineage actually predate this species?
    I believe the considered opinion of the scientists is no, see the quote above from Science.

    Did all contemporary members of arthropoda share these features?
    That would be interesting either way, but again, the early appearance of a modern brain and cardiovascular system in this Cambrian creature is not what we would expect in the fossil record.

    Did the origin of these features define the arthropod lineage, and thus should be expected in this organism?
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here, though.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  9. #8
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Are you attempting the fallacy of an 'argument from ignorance.' The old missing link fallacy. New discoveries just simply add more information in the evolution of animals in the Cambrian.
    No, it's the present link that's the problem, the early appearance of a modern brain and cardiovascular system.

    There are numerous simpler animals older than the Fuxianhuia.
    But this doesn't prove descent.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  10. #9
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, it's the present link that's the problem, the early appearance of a modern brain and cardiovascular system.

    But this doesn't prove descent.
    There is no 'proof' in science. It is a given in all your threads that you reject evolution and common descent. You are still looking for rabbit fossils in Cambrian rocks, and blatantly misrepresenting science at every opportunity. This is your favorite the 'arguing from ignorance' expecting 'missing links' with every new discovery. This beyond bogus science.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  11. #10
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    There is no 'proof' in science. It is a given in all your threads that you reject evolution and common descent. You are still looking for rabbit fossils in Cambrian rocks, and blatantly misrepresenting science at every opportunity. This is your favorite the 'arguing from ignorance' expecting 'missing links' with every new discovery. This beyond bogus science.
    And let's not forget how when a so-called "missing link" is discovered what the all too typical reaction is



    I'm always still in trouble again

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  12. Amen Duragizer, Yttrium, Seeker amen'd this post.

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