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Thread: Early head and heart

  1. #81
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Moreover Tours should have been asking biologists, zoologists or maybe geneticists rather than synthetic chemists. It's no different than asking geologists for an explanation on quantum physics. You are simply asking the wrong experts.
    He is well aware of the work of biologists etc., he even says "Stop sending me papers, they are all the same" or words to that effect.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  2. #82
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    AFAICT we all are the result of having been given birth to by our mothers (not including "test tube babies" who still come from their genetic material). Yet various passages describe us, like Adam, of having been constructed or shaped out of dust/clay. But being we were created by being born from our parents and not literally constructed out of dust/clay this might suggest that the same may have been true for Adam.
    Yet being "dust / clay" is not the same as being formed from dust, as Adam was said to have been.

    Blessings
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  3. #83
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Your 'arguing from ignorance' with the perpetual motion fallacy argument of gaps within gaps with gaps is flawed, because over time new fossil discoveries and research fill the gaps, and instead of getting involved with the actual positive research and efforts to discover the evidence the perpetual motion nonsense argument continues.
    But this is not an argument about gaps, this is a surprisingly early and relatively complex brain and cardiovascular system.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  4. #84
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But this is not an argument about gaps, this is a surprisingly early and relatively complex brain and cardiovascular system.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Yes it is both an argument from ignorance and argument of gaps, because you arguing we do not have the predecessors of the Fuxianhuia to demonstrate its evolution.

    So what,?!?!?! Based on the recent fossil discovery fungi existed 460,000 million years older than previously thought. As I said before we have hundreds of millions of years for evolution before the discovery of the Fuxianhuia. What's the problem?
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-24-2019 at 02:55 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

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  5. #85
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But this is not an argument about gaps, this is a surprisingly early and relatively complex brain and cardiovascular system.
    You keep saying "surprising" when i already explained that it had been predicted based on an analysis of the existing arthropod family tree. And that it was predictable based on the fact that early arthropods had multiple large sensory organs. And those facts were in the very text you were quoting.

    There's two things going on here:
    You're mistaking a biologist deciding saying "this is surprising!" would make for a good press release with something that's scientifically unexpected.
    You don't understand the biology you're quoting well enough to draw any conclusions.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  6. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  7. #86
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    You keep saying "surprising" when i already explained that it had been predicted based on an analysis of the existing arthropod family tree.
    As I recall, you said arthropods by definition had these characteristics, because they had these characteristics. Which is rather tautological.

    And that it was predictable based on the fact that early arthropods had multiple large sensory organs.
    The question is whether such brains and cardiovascular systems (let's not forget the latter), and we might add sensory organs, are to be expected so early in the Cambrian.

    This gives much less time for them to have evolved.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  8. #87
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Based on the recent fossil discovery fungi existed 460,000 million years older than previously thought.
    Which makes it that much less time for fungi to have evolved.

    As I said before we have hundreds of millions of years for evolution before the discovery of the Fuxianhuia. What's the problem?
    Only the creatures beforehand evidently had no brains to speak of. So the time for the evolution of relatively complex brains and cardiovascular systems is much compressed.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  9. #88
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post


    Only the creatures beforehand evidently had no brains to speak of. So the time for the evolution of relatively complex brains and cardiovascular systems is much compressed.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    It appears that they did have some sensory organs. Do you really think that they had sensory organs that couldn't relay information to anything?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  10. Amen TheLurch amen'd this post.
  11. #89
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    As I recall, you said arthropods by definition had these characteristics, because they had these characteristics. Which is rather tautological.
    If that's what you recall, then you weren't paying attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    The question is whether such brains and cardiovascular systems (let's not forget the latter)
    I don't understand cardiac development and evolution of the heart as well as i understand the nervous system. Unlike you, that causes me to approach the subject with caution until i read up on the science.

    Given that you've been a veritable fountain of misinformation on the nervous system, i haven't yet felt the need to understand what you get wrong about hearts. Only so much time in the day...


    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Only the creatures beforehand evidently had no brains to speak of.
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    and we might add sensory organs, are to be expected so early in the Cambrian.
    Given that the video you linked indicated that organisms were doing pattern-based foraging in their environment in the Ediacaran, i'm wondering how you think they managed that a without a brain or any sensory systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    This gives much less time for them to have evolved.
    Without looking it up, how long do you think the Ediacaran was? What fraction of that do we have signs of multicellular life from? And how well represented is the Ediacaran in the fossil record?
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  12. #90
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Which makes it that much less time for fungi to have evolved.


    Only the creatures beforehand evidently had no brains to speak of. So the time for the evolution of relatively complex brains and cardiovascular systems is much compressed.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    OK, possibly, so what?!?!?! Moving the goal posts does not help your religious agenda. Will still have many millions years to evolve.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earliest_known_life_forms


    The earliest known life forms on Earth are putative fossilized microorganisms found in hydrothermal vent precipitates.[1] The earliest time that life forms first appeared on Earth is unknown. They could have lived earlier than 3.77 billion years ago, possibly as early as 4.28 billion years ago,[1] or nearly 4.5 billion years ago according to some;[3][4]

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    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-25-2019 at 12:52 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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