Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Early head and heart

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, you were challenging me on simple and complex neuroanatomy, and this paper deals with that.
    Only relative to branchiopods and insects. Do you know what the branchiopod structure is? What the insect structure is?

    If the answer is "no" (which i suspect it is) then you can't tell whether this is complex in a general sense, or just relatively complex.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
      Because of radiation events such as the Cambrian explosion (re Darwin's Doubt and Debating Darwin's Doubt), and the theological difficulties with there being no historical Adam and Eve. Not to mention mitochondrial Eve...

      Blessings,
      Lee
      So I take it you are an YEC and believes the Earth is 6,000 years old, just like CMI and AiG?

      Comment


      • #33
        The death of the mitochondrial eve story results in part from findings that 200 000 years agone is too recent. No good news in that for YEC
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
          Because of radiation events such as the Cambrian explosion (re Darwin's Doubt and Debating Darwin's Doubt), and the theological difficulties with there being no historical Adam and Eve. Not to mention mitochondrial Eve...
          Why don't you just say "i don't accept the evidence for evolution for theological reasons" and leave it at that?
          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            No, no problem it just changes the time frame more likely earlier in the Cambrian, ie the Ediacaran than the preCambrian. There are tens of millions if not more for evolution between the more primitive known fossils and the Fuxianhuia. There is nothing problematic for pushing back the timing of the evolution of Fuxianhuia.
            Originally posted by TheLurch
            Why? These systems had to originate at some point.
            If Fuxianhuia has a complex brain and cardiovascular system, then the earlier these appear, the more difficult they are to explain, especially if they had to evolve in the Ediacaran.

            Blessings,
            Lee
            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
              Only relative to branchiopods and insects. Do you know what the branchiopod structure is? What the insect structure is?

              If the answer is "no" (which i suspect it is) then you can't tell whether this is complex in a general sense, or just relatively complex.
              Well, the paper titled "Complex brain and optic lobes in an early Cambrian arthropod" would indicate that the brain is complex in a general sense.

              Blessings,
              Lee
              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Seeker View Post
                So I take it you are an YEC and believes the Earth is 6,000 years old, just like CMI and AiG?
                No, I'm an Old Earth Creationist.

                Why don't you just say "i don't accept the evidence for evolution for theological reasons" and leave it at that?
                Because there is good scientific evidence for a designer, especially at the start of life, for instance.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                  Well, the paper titled "Complex brain and optic lobes in an early Cambrian arthropod" would indicate that the brain is complex in a general sense.
                  But the actual text of the paper, where ideas can actually be elaborated, makes it clear that it's "complex relative to branchiopods".
                  "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                    Because there is good scientific evidence for a designer, especially at the start of life, for instance.
                    Strange. I was a biologist for over 20 years, and I never saw any of that evidence.
                    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                      Strange. I was a biologist for over 20 years, and I never saw any of that evidence.
                      Apologies but I haven't had the opportunity to post this in a good long time:






                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Apologies but I haven't had the opportunity to post this in a good long time:
                        Well, what can i say other than, having watched it, i regret having given you the opportunity....
                        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          If Fuxianhuia has a complex brain and cardiovascular system, then the earlier these appear, the more difficult they are to explain, especially if they had to evolve in the Ediacaran.
                          You're arguing for a problem about what is unknown with an agenda, which is not a sound argument. Unknowns are not a problem in science, and they are part of the goals to look for more evidence. As in the evolution of whales the known fossils in a given strata was the basis for looking for intermediates in other strata, and eventually the intermediates were found where predicted. We are dealing with tens of millions of years or more even before we get to the ediacaran, and yes evolution did take place in the Ediacaran.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            Because there is good scientific evidence for a designer, especially at the start of life, for instance.

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            Actually there is absolutely no evidence. You would have to have a falsifiable hypothesis that any 'objective verifiable evidence,' ie complexity, cannot be explained by natural processes. That has not only not been done, but the only route this hypothesis has is 'arguing from ignorance,' which is unsound science.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              You're arguing for a problem about what is unknown with an agenda, which is not a sound argument. Unknowns are not a problem in science, and they are part of the goals to look for more evidence. As in the evolution of whales the known fossils in a given strata was the basis for looking for intermediates in other strata, and eventually the intermediates were found where predicted. We are dealing with tens of millions of years or more even before we get to the ediacaran, and yes evolution did take place in the Ediacaran.
                              Well, the problem is that where primitive brains might be expected, we see complex (relative to brachiopod) brains instead. And are you arguing that substantial brain and cardiovascular development could have occurred in the Ediacaran?

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                                Strange. I was a biologist for over 20 years, and I never saw any of that evidence.
                                So I started a thread to discuss the state of origin-of-life research.

                                Blessings,
                                Lee
                                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
                                48 responses
                                135 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
                                16 responses
                                74 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
                                6 responses
                                48 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Working...
                                X