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Thread: Ohio bill and ectopic pregnancies?

  1. #31
    tWebber Ana Dragule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    So the earlier comment that "only anti-abortion is prolife" did need some adjusting. Pro life is a set of values consistent with the faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Not exactly what she said - but she can address that if she likes.
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I read, and re read the post. It does not make sense to me, unless the poster rejects Catholic pro life teaching, which I doubt is the case.

    Pro life is more than anti abortion. The existence of abortion in this society is a scandal. But mindless support of any bill which comes down the pike is hardly consistent with a practical way to push Christian values into the public square.
    Whether I hold to the Catholic stance that life begins at conception or the Jewish stance hat ensoulment is a process, it does not affect the nature of the political movement known as “pro-life”. Perhaps I could have clarified this better in my earlier post.

    “pro-life” – a political movement built into the conservative Christian community that is anti-abortion, typically holding that life begins at conception, and opposing all forms of birth control that knowingly risk keeping a fertilized egg from becoming implanted.

    Other life-supporting measures – may be pro-life without being “pro-life”. See Planned Parenthood’s breast cancer screenings and annual well-woman exams for low-income women.

    Fun fact: The location of pro-choice organizations such as Planned Parenthood in low-income areas can be viewed as racism to target African American mom’s for possible abortion clients.

    Typical response to confusing pro-life with “pro-life” while not blanketly supporting whatever it takes to make abortion (including implantation-preventing birth control) illegal:

    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Pro-life… you are NOT pro-life and you can take your world loving, death worship elsewhere.
    Understanding what the "pro-life" movement is about may increase effectiveness in addressing concerns and arguing for other life-supporting measures, such as education about progesterone IUDs that prevent ovulation as an example of how education about contraception (not pill specific) options can reduce unwanted pregnancies.
    Last edited by Ana Dragule; 12-09-2019 at 11:22 PM.
    I am become death...

  2. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Dragule View Post
    Whether I hold to the Catholic stance that life begins at conception or the Jewish stance hat ensoulment is a process, it does not affect the nature of the political movement known as “pro-life”. Perhaps I could have clarified this better in my earlier post.

    “pro-life” – a political movement built into the conservative Christian community that is anti-abortion, typically holding that life begins at conception, and opposing all forms of birth control that knowingly risk keeping a fertilized egg from becoming implanted.

    Other life-supporting measures – may be pro-life without being “pro-life”. See Planned Parenthood’s breast cancer screenings and annual well-woman exams for low-income women.

    Fun fact: The location of pro-choice organizations such as Planned Parenthood in low-income areas can be viewed as racism to target African American momÂ’s for possible abortion clients.

    Typical response to confusing pro-life with “pro-life” while not blanketly supporting whatever it takes to make abortion (including implantation-preventing birth control) illegal:



    Understanding what the "pro-life" movement is about may increase effectiveness in addressing concerns and arguing for other life-supporting measures, such as education about progesterone IUDs that prevent ovulation as an example of how education about contraception (not pill specific) options can reduce unwanted pregnancies.
    I was referring to the Catholic view, as taught by JPII in the encyclical The gospel of life (evangelium vitae), which recognizes a culture of life which is opposed to a culture of death. It is summed up as a "seamless garment" even though the term has been hijacked by theological and political liberals to force some calculus for time spent on the other issues.

    As far as I know, Catholic doctrine does not anchor itself on life beginning at conception, I see that as a needless diversion. The Clair McCaskill fiasco is an example (the Missouri senator whom the right failed to unseat in a pro life state). New York State is pushing an insurance mandate for IVF.

    If pro life Christians recognized that life begins at conception as a non-negotiable principle, then the defense of ivf (both online in face to face) would not parallel the hoariest pro abortion arguments.

    Separating the political from the moral argument may be necessary in a secular and profane world, but the political needs to follow from the moral for it to be genuinely Christ centered. The Ohio bill seeks to force a showdown at the supreme court, which is a problematic strategy. It may backfire and more deeply entrench Roe into law, it depends on judicial activism to overturn previous laws. So I see the distinctions between "pro-life" and pro life as artificial and counter productive.

    Is the conservative Christian community really pro life? I am not so sure, the big battles at the ballot box always come up as a loss. http://www.prolifenation.org/wp-cont...or_Victory.pdf

    I hold a position pretty much in the minority, a form of triumphalism which states that the controversies are won or lost first within the Body of Christ, before they enter into the public sphere. The world will not embrace a culture of life without the Body of Christ leading the way.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    46 years of 'strategy' and babies are still being slaughtered. I once believed that crap - now I believe it's better to speak the truth.
    What is the strategy behind this bill?

    Is it to make a mockery of pro life Christians as ignorant dupes, unable to write practical laws? The strategy lately has been to pass a series of laws, in the hope that they will be challenged and run through the courts until the reach the Supreme Court. This also places the insurance companies in an untenable position, forcing a showdown in the courts.

    Past rulings, such as Sternberg vs Carhart went against the pro life side on a case which many predicted was a slam dunk. The effect was to further entrench into law, in that example was the "life and well being of the mother".
    .
    Strategy is important, since this is the political sphere.

    What is the truth to be gleaned from this bill, which needs to be articulated? That Christians are unable to actually write a law? That they have to depend on judicial activism since they are unable to actually get pro life Christians motivated enough to cast a ballot?
    Last edited by simplicio; 12-10-2019 at 02:10 AM.

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