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Alabama Abortion Ban:

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    If there are no exception clauses, it is a bad law.
    Note that the description was preceded by "near-total" ban. There would be exceptions for where the mother's life is genuinely in danger and the fetus is as yet nonviable, as far as I can tell.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      If there are no exception clauses, it is a bad law.
      Just the life of the mother...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        The obvious solution is a law stating that any man convicted of rape or incest loses all parental rights to any child that might result from his crime.
        I tend to think if a rape creates a pregnancy, the women should have some say in whether that pregnacy is allowed to continue. Especially early on. To put that sort of lifelong reponsibility on someone that is the victim of a crime like rape is insane, even vindictive.

        Jim
        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-15-2019, 03:32 PM.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          I tend to think if a rape creates a pregnancy, the women should have some say in whether that pregnacy is allowed to continue. Especialky early on. To put that sort of lifelong reposibility on someone that is the victim of a crime like rape is insane, even vindictive.

          Jim
          How is murdering someone because they were begotten by rape not insane or vindictive? Does it make it okay because you do so before they exit the womb?

          ETA: If the resulting child is put up for adoption, that would not be a lifelong responsibility.
          Last edited by One Bad Pig; 05-15-2019, 03:26 PM.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            I tend to think if a rape creates a pregnancy, the women should have some say in whether that pregnacy is allowed to continue. Especialky early on. To put that sort of lifelong reposibility on someone that is the victim of a crime like rape is insane, even vindictive.

            Jim
            That is a position that I have a strong sympathy for, yet should the baby be the one to pay the ultimate price? He/she is absolutely innocent in all this.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #21
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              I tend to think if a rape creates a pregnancy, the women should have some say in whether that pregnacy is allowed to continue. Especially early on. To put that sort of lifelong reponsibility on someone that is the victim of a crime like rape is insane, even vindictive.

              Jim
              Right, let's kill the innocent human life because that's not insane or vindictive.

              Did you think that all the way through before you clicked the submit button?

              I sympathize with victims of rape, they have suffered an evil, but committing another evil in the event that they become pregnant is not the answer. Adoption is always an option, and who knows, the woman may even come to love the life that is developing inside her.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #22
                Why is incest such a commonly suggested exception for abortion anyway? I understand the reasoning for the rape exception, even if I don't necessarily agree with it, but incest as an exception seems almost random.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  How is murdering someone because they were begotten by rape not insane or vindictive? Does it make it okay because you do so before they exit the womb?

                  ETA: If the resulting child is put up for adoption, that would not be a lifelong responsibility.
                  Well first and foremost, in the case of an early stage pregnancy brought on by rape, it is not a case of murder. The rapist has violently foisted this situation upon the women. He has, in effect, threatened her life twice. The first time by the actual attack. And the second time by forcing her into the position where she has to chose between her own life and the life forming within her. To carry this life to term is to lose her life, to have it stolen by the man who raped her. And in this case, the fact we recognize that if her life is in danger, she has the right not to continue the pregnancy comes into play. In this case, I believe she has as much right to have a say in what happens next as she would have if carrying the baby would be a physical and mortal danger to her.

                  But most of the time it should not come to this. Most of the time the way this issue can be best dealt with is to just give the raped woman the option of taking something preventative when she reports the rape. Most of the time that will be sufficient. It will prevent any potential outcome of the rape that would create the need to agonize over a decision about an abortion.

                  Jim
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-15-2019, 10:53 PM.
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    I think this is written to be consistent. If the unborn is a human being, no matter how it was conceived, it should have status under the law.
                    I disagree. The rapist forced this life upon her. She had no say in its coming into existence. Any consequence of his action, up to and including her choice not to allow the pregnancy to continue falls fully and completely on the rapist. She has the right not to be forced to sacrifice her life even for her own child. By starting a human life in this way, he is criminally negligent, and if the outcome is the child's death, it is his guilt to bear. She is the victim. The newly forming life is the victim. And he is the criminal.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-15-2019, 10:54 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Right, let's kill the innocent human life because that's not insane or vindictive.

                      Did you think that all the way through before you clicked the submit button?

                      I sympathize with victims of rape, they have suffered an evil, but committing another evil in the event that they become pregnant is not the answer. Adoption is always an option, and who knows, the woman may even come to love the life that is developing inside her.
                      And I suppose women abused by their husbands should just hang out and quietly be abused too? Who knows, maybe eventually they will change him by their loving response?

                      You don't realize it - but thoughts like the ones you just expressed are nothing more than the continued abuse of the rape victim.

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                        Why is incest such a commonly suggested exception for abortion anyway? I understand the reasoning for the rape exception, even if I don't necessarily agree with it, but incest as an exception seems almost random.
                        Incest is rare. But it is horrible for the victim, and is often non-consensual in any real sense (i.e. a form of rape). So it's basically the same as the rape situation in terms of why one would allow an abortion.

                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          And I suppose women abused by their husbands should just hang out and quietly be abused too? Who knows, maybe eventually they will change him by their loving response?

                          You don't realize it - but thoughts like the ones you just expressed are nothing more than the continued abuse of the rape victim.

                          Jim
                          You think a woman carrying a baby to term is abusive? Really?

                          You think a rape victim learning to love the baby she is carrying is like an abused wife learning to "love" her husband? Really?

                          You think that murdering an innocent human life is an acceptable alternative? Really?

                          And you claim you're pro-life? Really?
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            The claim now circulating is that the bill has a rider that if a woman makes a rape accusation that fails to result in a guilty conviction, she goes to jail for ten years. I can't find any evidence this rider exists and am sure mainstream media would have picked up on it by now.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              Well first and foremost, in the case of an early stage pregnancy brought on by rape, it is not a case of murder.
                              Wrong. I don't care how "early" the stage is, abortion is the deliberate termination of a person's life.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                You think a woman carrying a baby to term is abusive? Really?

                                You think a rape victim learning to love the baby she is carrying is like an abused wife learning to "love" her husband? Really?

                                You think that murdering an innocent human life is an acceptable alternative? Really?

                                And you claim you're pro-life? Really?
                                Sorry, but your rant is just a combination of abuse of the victim, the women who was raped, and putting your fingers in your ears and refusing to even listen to the points made. This is not abortion for birth control. My point is that rape is effectively the same class of situation as danger to the life of the mother. Insread of debating that point, you are off once again attacking the person instead of providing a reasoned counter point, if one exists.

                                Jim
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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