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Alabama Abortion Ban:

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  • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    It has haunted her all this time, and regardless of the rape, she knows, not from any outside influence, but from her own conscience, that it was the wrong thing to do.

    She has said that she should have given the child away instead of having the abortion. She says it was never the fault of the child and what she did was wrong.

    Now, granted, some women may not have the same feelings as my aunt, but to talk as you do, that every woman who is raped will be better off without carrying the child is purely a lie.
    As Sparko said: "No, if she kills her child it is on her."

    Sophistry doesn't keep the truth at bay forever, and many a woman has "it on her" her conscience for a life-time, once it is realised that the "just a lump of tissue" story is a lie.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      Pro-lifers:
      Maybe killing an innocent third-party for the crimes of another person isn't such a moral thing to do?


      Oxmixmudd:
      Omg, why do you hate rape victims?!?!?!

      Yep - I can always count on your capacity to process arguments beyond the 4th grade level with maturity and depth of understanding.

      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Yep - I can always count on your capacity to process arguments beyond the 4th grade level with maturity and depth of understanding.

        Jim
        He does have a knack for distilling an argument down to it's essence (as does Zymologist). And he hits it on the head here.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          Yep - I can always count on your capacity to process arguments beyond the 4th grade level with maturity and depth of understanding.

          Jim
          Truth hurts, huh Jimbo?
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            As Sparko said: "No, if she kills her child it is on her."

            Sophistry doesn't keep the truth at bay forever, and many a woman has "it on her" her conscience for a life-time, once it is realised that the "just a lump of tissue" story is a lie.
            And refusing to recognize that the rape and its consequences puts this in a different category of problem than consensual sex is not 'sophistry'? It is in fact a lie - and a very evil one because it completely trivializes the Trauma of the rape victim.

            In fact most of the replies so far have the following in common:

            1) They mock the trauma and danger to the rape victim.
            2) They refuse to recognize that in some cases that trauma produces damage to the victim that coupled with dealing with being pregnant from it puts the woman's life in mortal danger.
            3) That when the woman's life is in mortal danger, an abortion is justified.

            Secondarily, pregnancy is a continuum. It begins with a zygote which may or may not implant itself into the womb. For the first 4 to 8 weeks that development process does not include any semblance of human consciousness, awareness, or mobile capacity. It is, in fact, a mass of cells growing and maturing, differentiating and with the potential to become a person later in the pregnancy. So the fetus is in fact a 'developing mass of cells' early on.

            Nevertheless, the argument for the rape exception is based on the fact that this pregnancy was not a product of her own choices but rather was violently forced upon her and she should have to right to say whether or not it is allowed to continue. It is that simple.

            She is not and should not be made to be responsible for bearing that burden.



            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
              Omg, why do you hate rape victims?!?!?!
              Actually, this thread has made me wonder about that. There seems to be a complete lack of empathy for rape victims among a number of posters here. Apparently, if a poor teenage rape victim decides to keep her child, well, she'd better take good care of her baby... or else. No sympathy, no helping hand. She's just another one of those impoverished single mothers, right? She should have known better than to get pregnant in the first place. No responsibility for the rapist, it's all on her.
              Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                And refusing to recognize that the rape and its consequences puts this in a different category of problem than consensual sex is not 'sophistry'? It is in fact a lie - and a very evil one because it completely trivializes the Trauma of the rape victim.

                In fact most of the replies so far have the following in common:

                1) They mock the trauma and danger to the rape victim.
                2) They refuse to recognize that in some cases that trauma produces damage to the victim that coupled with dealing with being pregnant from it puts the woman's life in mortal danger.
                3) That when the woman's life is in mortal danger, an abortion is justified.

                Secondarily, pregnancy is a continuum. It begins with a zygote which may or may not implant itself into the womb. For the first 4 to 8 weeks that development process does not include any semblance of human consciousness, awareness, or mobile capacity. It is, in fact, a mass of cells growing and maturing, differentiating and with the potential to become a person later in the pregnancy. So the fetus is in fact 'developing mass of cells' early on.

                Nevertheless, the argument for the rape exception is based on the fact that this pregnancy was not a product of her own choices but rather was violently forced upon her and she should have to right to say whether or not it is allowed to continue. It is that simple.

                She is not and should not be made to be responsible for bearing that burden.



                Jim
                Explain that to the women who have a post-rape abortion and then spend their lives dealing with the enormity of their decisions!
                And no - I don't oppose (automatically) abortion in cases where a person has been raped.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  Truth hurts, huh Jimbo?
                  There you go with that avatar thing again.

                  Jim
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                    Actually, this thread has made me wonder about that. There seems to be a complete lack of empathy for rape victims among a number of posters here. Apparently, if a poor teenage rape victim decides to keep her child, well, she'd better take good care of her baby... or else. No sympathy, no helping hand. She's just another one of those impoverished single mothers, right? She should have known better than to get pregnant in the first place. No responsibility for the rapist, it's all on her.
                    I don't think this accurately represents the posts in this thread at all.
                    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      Explain that to the women who have a post-rape abortion and then spend their lives dealing with the enormity of their decisions!
                      And that is why such women should not be counselled by planned parenthood. And why some women should not abort the baby produced by the rape. But it is NOT an argument that can be used to support forcing EVERY woman in that situation to carry that baby to term!

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                        Actually, this thread has made me wonder about that. There seems to be a complete lack of empathy for rape victims among a number of posters here. Apparently, if a poor teenage rape victim decides to keep her child, well, she'd better take good care of her baby... or else. No sympathy, no helping hand. She's just another one of those impoverished single mothers, right? She should have known better than to get pregnant in the first place. No responsibility for the rapist, it's all on her.
                        Please provide quotes that can be reasonably inferred as suggesting that, because you're inventing subtext out of whole cloth that simply isn't there.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          And that is why such women should not be counselled by planned parenthood. And why some women should not abort the baby produced by the rape. But it is NOT an argument that can be used to support forcing EVERY woman in that situation to carry that baby to term!

                          Jim
                          I did a late edit on my post - you will see that I agree. But most times, properly conducted counselling will see the baby carried to term, with the woman reasonably happy with her own decision. THAT isn't the kind of counselling that PP offers.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            He does have a knack for distilling an argument down to it's essence (as does Zymologist). And he hits it on the head here.
                            No even close - unless you are ideologically limiting your mental maturity to that of 4th grader.

                            And here I am speaking of the attempt to reduce the arguments here presented to such infantile terms.

                            It is unworthy of all of you.


                            Jim
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                              I did a late edit on my post - you will see that I agree. But most times, properly conducted counselling will see the baby carried to term, with the woman reasonably happy with her own decision. THAT isn't the kind of counselling that PP offers.
                              EXACTLY - thank you! You at least are catching on. I'm not arguing for abortion as a generic solution to rape pregnancies. I'm arguing that you can't take that exception away because SOMETIMES it is necessary and justified.


                              Jim
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                EXACTLY - thank you! You at least are catching on. I'm not arguing for abortion as a generic solution to rape pregnancies. I'm arguing that you can't take that exception away because SOMETIMES it is necessary and justified.


                                Jim
                                It has been my opinion for some 40 years now. I review it from time to time, because I'm not comfortable with it - but no better resolution seems to be on offer.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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