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Thread: Alabama Abortion Ban:

  1. #41
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    It's not the baby's fault that the father was a complete scumbag!
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  2. Amen seer, QuantaFille, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #42
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Although I understand why they might have thought it made sense, I tend to think the lack of an exception for rape and incest is over the top. We have laws that allow a rapist to demand parental rights after the fact. Not so sure it makes sense to force a woman that conceived due to rape to have to endure a lifetime of continuous rape (though his exercise of control over her life and the life of the child) by that person once they get out of prison. Incest is a very odd situation to start with, but again, the lack of an exception is forcing the victim to continue to be a victim for their entire life.

    Jim
    Adoption.

  4. #43
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Adoption.
    Yes - adoption is likely the best option for many in this situation.

    Please do not lose sight of the fact we are talking about when abortion might be allowed, not when it is mandated, or even when it is recommended.

    Please try to understand my argument is related to the fact without the Rape exception, the state is mandating that the VICTIM of a violent crime be victimized AGAIN by the state by mandating she not be able to take a safe mitigation readily available to prevent a pregnancy that was forced upon her VIOLENTLY. We are not in any way talking about abortion as birth control or abortion on demand. This is a special case that I believe is sufficiently close to to the well recognized exception for danger to the life of the mother that the exception itself should exist regardless of when you believe the fetus has the same rights associated with a baby that has been born.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-16-2019 at 09:07 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  5. #44
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I am not sure you or I can decide for any women subjected to a rape that results in a pregnancy which is the better option for her. That is why she needs to have the ability to evaluate in her case what consequences of the rape she must accept and which consequences she can not accept - where she has a choice.



    I am not saying an abortion is always the best solution. What I am saying is that she is the victim here and if the only way she can survive this rape is to terminate the pregnancy, then she should have the right to make that decision because her life is endangered by that pregnancy. The person responsible for putting her - and the new life that is forming - into that awful situation is the rapist. She is innocent, regardless of which option she decides is the better of the two for her.

    Jim
    The problem with your argument is that it is 100% an appeal to emotion.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. Amen mossrose, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  7. #45
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    It's not the baby's fault that the father was a complete scumbag!
    Neither is it the women's fault she was raped. You can't just ignore the situation this woman pregnant by her rapist finds herself in. Depending on who she is and where she is morally, psychologically, her life has been taken from her and a new one imposed upon her violently. This pregnancy is part of that. Demanding she carry the baby to term is victimizing her again. She is trapped, alone, afraid, beaten, traumatized. She needs help to carry that baby. Financially, Psychologically, Medically, Physically. She needs help to deal with the rape - Financially, Psychologically, Medically, Physically as well. Her entire life is turned around. And you are going to foist on her and her alone the full responsibility for all of that at the hands of her rapist?

    No - you cannot do that. It is wrong.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  8. #46
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Yes - adoption is likely the best option for many in this situation.

    Please do not lose sight of the fact we are talking about when abortion might be allowed, not when it is mandated, or even when it is recommended.

    Jim
    Well according to the bill, abortion is not allowed except in the case of the pregnancy medically endangering the life of the mother (ectopic pregnancy for example)

    I don't think that the baby of rape or incest is somehow tainted. It is still a human being. It can't help who its parents are, any more than you or I. Should the child have to pay for the sins of the father?

    https://tinseltownmom.com/10-celebri...d-out-of-rape/

  9. Amen Christianbookworm, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  10. #47
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Wow.
    And I can say the same thing to you in your utter disregard for what has happened to this women and the financial, psychological, medical and physical burden you would foist upon her without batting an eye. Responsibilities and burdens that were violently placed in her path. And you would condemn her for trying to minimize the consequences?

    Who is going to pay her medical bills?

    Who is going to pay for her counselling?

    Who is going to stand by her side as she cries night after night trying to make sense of it all?

    Who is going to provide the resources she need to take 9 months out of her life if she makes the choice to adopt? Do you suppose she can ever return to what her life was?

    If she bonds with him or her and just can't adopt, who is going to pay to raise this child, send him to school, help him or her deal with the fact their father raped their mother?

    Who is going to protect her and the child when this 'father' cynically tries to get 'parental rights'?

    You would put all this on HER - the victim!



    She is the victim.




    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  11. #48
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Well according to the bill, abortion is not allowed except in the case of the pregnancy medically endangering the life of the mother (ectopic pregnancy for example)

    I don't think that the baby of rape or incest is somehow tainted. It is still a human being. It can't help who its parents are, any more than you or I. Should the child have to pay for the sins of the father?

    https://tinseltownmom.com/10-celebri...d-out-of-rape/
    Right.

    I wonder why on this board there is no capacity to understand or empathise with what has happened to this women and what is being demanding of her?

    This man threatened her life, took her privacy, poured fear into her, impregnated her against her will. And now you would allow this scum at the hands of the state to take at minimum another year of life from her, charge her at least 7 to $10,000 in medical bills to have this baby, very possibly steal her career, her life from her - and that is just if she adopts. And what if she is married and already has a family? Now you demand they all take this on as well? Don't get me wrong, there are many that are up to it and would CHOOSE to do so.

    But you can't demand she allow this rapist take everything from her. In our day, she has options. And as a result, she needs to be able to choose what happens next.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-16-2019 at 09:33 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  12. #49
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Right.

    I wonder why on this board there is no capacity to understand or empathise with what has happened to this women and what you are demanding of her?


    Jim
    Because her suffering emotionally for a few months doesn't compare to murdering an innocent life. She can seek counseling, financial aid, etc. Most crisis pregnancy centers provide both. And will help with adoption if she so chooses. She doesn't have to face it alone.


    What about the mother who gets pregnant through consensual sex and then regrets it or can't afford the doctors or feels emotionally stressed by her pregnancy? Should she be able to terminate that child?

  13. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  14. #50
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The problem with your argument is that it is 100% an appeal to emotion.
    No - it's a 100% appeal to compassion for a victim of a violent crime. It's an appeal to mercy for the victim of a violent crime - to not demand she sacrifice her entire life at the feet of this rapist.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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