Alabama Abortion Ban:

[oxmixmudd]

Isn't that just infanticide? Aka the thing ancient pagans liked to do with unwanted babies? Sounds like the opposite of progress to me.

he qualified his remarks speaking about babies born with severe (non-survivable) defects and I believe he was talking about not resuscitating, not actively killing, but it is clearly the wrong direction. Late term abortions should not happen except in cases where the mother is known to be in mortal danger and there is no way to save both her life and the child's.

Jim

[Christianbookworm]

Except that an emergency c-section is much faster than an abortion. The baby possibly dying in the NICU is an unintended consequence.

[Mountain Man]

Isn't that just infanticide? Aka the thing ancient pagans liked to do with unwanted babies? Sounds like the opposite of progress to me.

I've heard some say that America today is little different than an ancient pagan society because we as a country worship the earth, we worship pleasure, and we celebrate the destruction of innocent children.

[oxmixmudd]

Except that an emergency c-section is much faster than an abortion. The baby possibly dying in the NICU is an unintended consequence.

Perhaps. C-section has consequences to the mother and should only be used if there is a good chance of the baby surviving because typically once you have a C-section, you have to have one for any subsequent births. Not sure which is going to carry more trauma to the physical body. If the mothers life is endangered by the pregnancy, she is likely in a fragile state to start with, and you have to do what threatens her life the least.

Jim

[Mountain Man]

...typically once you have a C-section, you have to have one for any subsequent births.

There is a slightly higher risk of a uterus rupturing during a subsequent vaginal birth, but that risk is, in fact, far lower than the risks and recovery time associated with major surgery (which a c-section is major surgery). It's primarily for legal and insurance reasons that doctors will refuse a "VBAC" for a woman who previously had a c-section.

[Cow Poke]

Perhaps. C-section has consequences to the mother and should only be used if there is a good chance of the baby surviving because typically once you have a C-section, you have to have one for any subsequent births. Not sure which is going to carry more trauma to the physical body. If the mothers life is endangered by the pregnancy, she is likely in a fragile state to start with, and you have to do what threatens her life the least.

Jim

If I might politely point out that this is one of those myths that just won't die. Since 2010, the National Institutes of Health recognized that trying vaginal birth after C-section was a reasonable option for many women with a previous C-section. The reason that, statistically, so many women have C-sections with subsequent births is because the 'conventional wisdom' just won't revise.

[Cow Poke]

I've heard some say that America today is little different than an ancient pagan society because we as a country worship the earth, we worship pleasure, and we celebrate the destruction of innocent children.

While vigorously protecting snail darters, unborn eagles, whales...

[mossrose]

I've heard some say that America today is little different than an ancient pagan society because we as a country worship the earth, we worship pleasure, and we celebrate the destruction of innocent children.

My husband has said for a couple of decades now (abortion at any stage has been legal here for at least that long) that we sacrifice our children on the altar of sex.

He is not wrong.

[Cow Poke]

If I might politely point out that this is one of those myths that just won't die. Since 2010, the National Institutes of Health recognized that trying vaginal birth after C-section was a reasonable option for many women with a previous C-section. The reason that, statistically, so many women have C-sections with subsequent births is because the 'conventional wisdom' just won't revise.

My daughter, who has been a labor/delivery nurse, also added that one reason there are so many C-sections (particularly when a woman has already had a C) is that it's far more convenient for the doctor to name the date and time, and schedule the "birth", than to be summoned at the last possible moment from his golf game. (I made up that last part )

But, seriously, I think this "once a C, always a C" is often used as an excuse to make things more manageable for the doctor. Not only can he schedule the date and time, but there's a much more "fixed" window of time required for the procedure.

[Mountain Man]

My daughter, who has been a labor/delivery nurse, also added that one reason there are so many C-sections (particularly when a woman has already had a C) is that it's far more convenient for the doctor to name the date and time, and schedule the "birth", than to be summoned at the last possible moment from his golf game. (I made up that last part )

There's more truth there than you might realize. The doctor who delivered my first child strongly pushed for a scheduled induced delivery that eventually became a c-section because he had an upcoming vacation that he didn't want to have to reschedule (of course we didn't know this at the time; we later learned that his nickname in the medical community was "The C-Section King"). There's also the matter that doctors and hospitals get far more money from a c-section than for a vaginal birth.

If we knew everything then that we know now, we would have never followed his medical advice, and based on some of the things we learned later, we might even have had a good malpractice case, but we never pursued it.

[Cow Poke]

There's more truth there than you might realize. The doctor who delivered my first child strongly pushed for a scheduled induced delivery that eventually became a c-section because he had an upcoming vacation that he didn't want to have to reschedule (of course we didn't know this at the time; we later learned that his nickname in the medical community was "The C-Section King"). There's also the matter that doctors and hospitals get far more money from a c-section than for a vaginal birth.

If we knew everything then that we know now, we would have never followed his medical advice, and based on some of the things we learned later, we might even have had a good malpractice case, but we never pursued it.

I was trying not to be too critical, but the fact is that a c-section only takes 15-20 minutes, with another half hour or so for sewing up, which could be done by somebody other than the doctor. His/her "time on the scene" is not only scheduled, but limited.

This is one of those areas of 'statistics' where we really don't know how problematic a natural birth would be following a c-section, because the default was (and in many places still is) "do a C".

[Mountain Man]

This is one of those areas of 'statistics' where we really don't know how problematic a natural birth would be following a c-section, because the default was (and in many places still is) "do a C".

As I mentioned earlier, it's one of those legal things. If the mother has complications as the result of a c-section, the hospital can use the "we did everything we could/followed best medical practices" defense, whereas if a c-section scar causes a rupture, they could be on the hook for "ignoring the risk".

[Littlejoe]

I was trying not to be too critical, but the fact is that a c-section only takes 15-20 minutes, with another half hour or so for sewing up, which could be done by somebody other than the doctor. His/her "time on the scene" is not only scheduled, but limited.

This is one of those areas of 'statistics' where we really don't know how problematic a natural birth would be following a c-section, because the default was (and in many places still is) "do a C".

My oldest was emergency C-section, my middle one was natural, and my youngest was emergency C. None of the Dr's were uncomfortable with us going with natural after the first one was a C. None of the C's were scheduled...

[Mountain Man]

My oldest was emergency C-section, my middle one was natural, and my youngest was emergency C. None of the Dr's were uncomfortable with us going with natural after the first one was a C. None of the C's were scheduled...

It seems to depend on the doctor, the local medical system, and in some cases your insurance company.

[Christianbookworm]

Even though my neices can be a handful, I'd much rather care for them than do the yucky mating without actually reproducing thing! Is there a way to ethically remove the sex drive from anyone who doesn't want to reproduce? Or should they just use contraception?