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Thread: Alabama Abortion Ban:

  1. #411
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Doesn't it take two people to have a fight? Was she armed too?
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  2. #412
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Sigh... Intent follows the bullet - it doesn't matter that you intended to hurt Bob but hurt Mary instead. The intent to do harm follows the harm.

    Because had she killed or caused the death of her intended victim the charge is manslaughter (intent to harm isn't intent to kill) it is automatically manslaughter when she kills or sets in motion the death of an unintended victim, in this case, her unborn child. Yes, that can include provoking an altercation that results in harm or death.

    This is fairly well established law. It has nothing to do with abortion - you can't lawfully cause the death of someone's unborn child. And you can't claim your intent to harm another constitutes the decision to have an abortion.

  3. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  4. #413
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post

    Because had she killed or caused the death of her intended victim the charge is manslaughter (intent to harm isn't intent to kill) it is automatically manslaughter when she kills or sets in motion the death of an unintended victim, in this case, her unborn child. Yes, that can include provoking an altercation that results in harm or death.
    I have a family member who experienced a miscarriage as a direct result of a traffic accident. Under the upcoming law, could a woman who is judged at fault in such an accident (not under the influence; just running a stop sign or something) be charged with manslaughter?
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

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  5. #414
    Tweeb Overlord Chaotic Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The law is back in the news again because a woman has been charged with manslaughter after miscarrying. She got into a gunfight and prosecutors are saying she started the fight; therefore she is responsible for the miscarriage.

    I think charging her with manslaughter is a real stretch. However, people are going crazy saying this is due to the abortion law. One problem... the law hasn't even taken effect yet. This has literally nothing to do with the law.

    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ying-when-shot
    Well, that's a rather messed up situation...

    Now, while I think most invocations of, "Excessive Force," are baloney here in Canada (like a recent case in Manitoba where a guy was given 5 years jail time for killing a guy in self-defense), if there's anything like that in Alabama this would be a perfect time to slap the Self-Defender with them.
    Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

  6. #415
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I have a family member who experienced a miscarriage as a direct result of a traffic accident. Under the upcoming law, could a woman who is judged at fault in such an accident (not under the influence; just running a stop sign or something) be charged with manslaughter?
    The upcoming law is irrelevant - the answer is no and would not change. The issue remains intent - intent to violate the law isn't intent to do harm. The issue would only arise in criminal intent - being a pregnant getaway driver for a robbery and running that stop sign is a different story than a traffic violation.

    Basically, don't commit felonies while pregnant and this can't come up.

  7. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  8. #416
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    From what I can tell, the DA in the county where this happened is a pro-choice Democrat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the prosecution of this case fall under him?

    Oh, and he's black, too. (Because firstfloor invoked race.)

    https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2...e-updates.html
    https://www.wbrc.com/2019/06/07/dann...on-procedures/
    Lynneice Washington may be the DA of record, not Carr. She's also black, since First cares.

  9. #417
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Um, wouldn't making stricter laws about parental rights be a better solution than killing the baby?
    That was one example, and of course it would be better NOT to allow a rapist ANY access - direct or indirect - to whatever child he may have fostered or the woman he raped for as long as he is alive.

    But there are a lot of reasons I don't feel it is right to force a woman to bear the child of her rapist. That doesn't mean I don't think the best choice in the end would be for her to keep the baby assuming she is psychologically capable of doing so, or carrying the baby to term and adopting - again if she can. But to force her to do so is making her the victim of both the rape and the state.

    This opinion of mine is also coupled to my recognition that there is a period of time early in the pregnancy when the mind does not yet exist, which I feel tips the balance in favor of the woman's choice early on in this extreme case.

    The discussion was heated. And often became personal - so I'll not respond to anything along the lines of how horrible I am for having such an opinion, but if you are interested in discussing that opinion objectively along scientific of scriptural avenues, I'll give it a go.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

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  10. #418
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I have a family member who experienced a miscarriage as a direct result of a traffic accident. Under the upcoming law, could a woman who is judged at fault in such an accident (not under the influence; just running a stop sign or something) be charged with manslaughter?
    I think only if the person causing the accident was acting in a manner that any normal person knew was reckless and dangerous and likely to end in a wreck. Like speeding through a red light and t-boning someone. If it were a normal accident where there is really no fault then I don't think anyone can be charged with anyone else's death. I think the death of a fetus is treated just like any other person in the car in cases like this.

  11. #419
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I think only if the person causing the accident was acting in a manner that any normal person knew was reckless and dangerous and likely to end in a wreck. Like speeding through a red light and t-boning someone. If it were a normal accident where there is really no fault then I don't think anyone can be charged with anyone else's death. I think the death of a fetus is treated just like any other person in the car in cases like this.
    Which means our laws on this are in fact self contradictory. If a fetus is legally a person in a car accident, or in the case of the shooting, it should be considered a person wrt the abortion issue.

    I don't understand how, if this is how the law works governing actions that cause the death of a fetus, abortion could be legal at any time during gestation when these sorts of laws apply.


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-28-2019 at 06:53 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  12. #420
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Which means our laws on this are in fact self contradictory. If a fetus is legally a person in a car accident, or in the case of the shooting, it should be considered a person wrt the abortion issue.

    I don't understand how, if this is how the law works governing actions that cause the death of a fetus, abortion could be legal at any time during gestation when these sorts of laws apply.


    Jim
    correct, the law is contradictory. The fetus appears to be a person if the mother doesn't want an abortion and the fetus dies because of the actions of another person and not a person when she does want an abortion.

  13. Amen Christianbookworm amen'd this post.

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