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Alabama Abortion Ban:

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  • #61
    So you are counted among those who view an unborn baby as being less than human. The proverbial clump of tissue.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      Nope.

      The women who has consensual sex is consenting to the potential hardship that is the consequence of her choice.

      The raped women is not.

      Consider:

      I can choose to climb Mount Everest and if I die, that is my choice.

      If I force someone to climb Mount Everest and they die, I am a murderer.
      Horrible analogy.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        You are sacrificing real compassion for a living, breathing, human being that is the victim of a horrible crime for abstract, fantasy compassion for a potential human being that as yet can neither see, breath, hear, think, eat, or even perceive in any way any element of what is happening around it.

        You are ignoring what has happened to the women and foisting the responsibility for this potential child upon her. It is not her responsibility, it is the rapists. But one certainly can't expect him accept that - now can we?

        And again I will make the point you just can't seem to hold in your brain long enough to let it effect the content of your posts -

        I am not recommending abortion, I am saying it is wrong to take from her, the victim of the rape, that option.



        Jim
        And you are sacrificing a living human being on the altar of someone feeling bad because they were raped.

        Again, many wonderful people were the product of rape. Being the child of a rape doesn't make you a bad person. You don't deserve to die just because your mom feels bad about what happened to her or she hates you.

        https://tinseltownmom.com/10-celebri...d-out-of-rape/


        Inside the World of Anti-Abortion Activists Who Were Conceived By Rape and Incest

        It's jarring — and effective. Libertarian blogger Andrew Klavan writes at the conservative site Truth Revolt on Thursday that the women in these photos helped change his mind about abortion. He now thinks the practice should be illegal under all circumstances.
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        Texas Gov. Rick Perry had a similar change of heart after meeting with anti-abortion activist Rebecca Kiessling, who was conceived by rape. Before the 2012 election, she talked with Perry, explaining to LifeNews.com that the meeting went something like this:

        I said to him, “When you make that rape exception, it’s like you’re saying to me that I deserved the death penalty for the crimes of my father. According to the U.S. Supreme Court, my father didn’t even deserve the death penalty. The Supreme Court has said there is no death penalty for rapists. But you say that I, as the innocent child of rape, deserved the death penalty?” And Perry said, “No, no, I don’t believe that.”

        Perry now insists that the life of the mother should be the only exception when it comes to abortion.
        https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...d-rape/357314/

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          Nope.

          The women who has consensual sex is consenting to the potential hardship that is the consequence of her choice.

          The raped women is not.

          Consider:

          I can choose to climb Mount Everest and if I die, that is my choice.

          If I force someone to climb Mount Everest and they die, I am a murderer.


          You can't take the moral responsibility to own the consequences of ones own choices and say that means someone forced to do the same thing also has to own the consequences. I am not responsible for the consequences of something you force me to do. You are.


          Therefore, allowing rape as an exception clause for a ban on abortions does not in any way apply the reasons that exception clause might exist to any manner of consensual sex that produces a pregnancy. The raped women is victim and is not responsible to accept the consequences of the rapists actions. The women that had consensual sex is not a victim and through her own choice is pregnant and thus must accept the consequences of her own actions.


          Jim
          Again, you are saying it is not the actual hardship that is the problem, in both cases the women can handle the hardship if need be. You are saying that the woman should get a freebee, an "out" because of the circumstances of her condition.
          That because she is a victim, her innocent baby is allowed to become a victim too, of abortion. The baby pays with it's life, while the rapist just gets a few years in prison. Is that fair?

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            You are sacrificing real compassion for a living, breathing, human being that is the victim of a horrible crime for abstract, fantasy compassion for a potential human being that as yet can neither see, breath, hear, think, eat, or even perceive in any way any element of what is happening around it.

            You are ignoring what has happened to the women and foisting the responsibility for this potential child upon her. It is not her responsibility, it is the rapists. But one certainly can't expect him accept that - now can we?

            And again I will make the point you just can't seem to hold in your brain long enough to let it effect the content of your posts -

            I am not recommending abortion, I am saying it is wrong to take from her, the victim of the rape, that option.



            Jim
            And you've done it again: claim you're pro-life while using every argument in the pro-abortionist's handbook.

            Go back and read my comments throughout this thread and then tell me again if you can honestly say that I am "ignoring what has happened to the women and foisting the responsibility for this potential child upon her."
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

              I am not recommending abortion, I am saying it is wrong to take from her, the victim of the rape, that option.

              Jim
              And if he has any other kids, let's just give her the option to shoot them in the face. That'll fix him...
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                And if he has any other kids, let's just give her the option to shoot them in the face. That'll fix him...
                Yeah how is giving her the option to murder an innocent baby supposed to help her as a rape victim? It just turns her into a rape victim who is also a murderer. Which last time I checked is worse than being a rapist.

                Comment


                • #68
                  An abortion would be like getting raped again!
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    So you are counted among those who view an unborn baby as being less than human. The proverbial clump of tissue.
                    Rogue - you are smarter and more honest than to be purposefully mischaracterizing a person's view or stated position. What you have just said is libel.

                    I am pro-life, but I view the initial stages (prior to formation of the nervous system) as not yet a person. Human life with the potential to become a person, but not yet. And that is hugely different from what you just said. An unborn baby can be 8 months 2 weeks gestation. I am talking about the first 4 to 6 weeks at most. Further, I am not advocating for that distinction to make abortion on demand something moral, or acceptable in the normal case during this early period. But in THIS case (the case of a women made pregnant by a rapist against her will), it is an important difference and must be taken into account. The difference being there are two innocents whose lives can't both be saved as they currently are. And during that early period, I believe the choice can be morally made to allow the women to preserve what is left of her life as it was before the rape.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-16-2019, 03:11 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      An abortion would be like getting raped again!
                      That may well be true for you, and so you would most likely choose to keep the baby. That is your choice and it is a noble choice. But it will not be everyone's choice. And the consequences for some of being forced to carry the pregnancy to term will be much worse than the consequences of ending the pregnancy. That is why it should be up to the woman - in this case - to make the decision.

                      Jim
                      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-16-2019, 03:33 PM.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                        And if he has any other kids, let's just give her the option to shoot them in the face. That'll fix him...
                        And yet again you try to color the content of your responses to match the appearance of your avatar. You really need to stop doing that ...


                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          And you've done it again: claim you're pro-life while using every argument in the pro-abortionist's handbook.

                          Go back and read my comments throughout this thread and then tell me again if you can honestly say that I am "ignoring what has happened to the women and foisting the responsibility for this potential child upon her."
                          Yep - I honestly can say that. If she aborts the child you want her to be guilty of murder, not the rapist. You want to make her 100% responsible for the child the rapist put inside her against her will. That is EXACTLY what you are doing. You are:


                          "ignoring what has happened to the women and foisting the responsibility for this potential child upon her."


                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Yep - I honestly can say that. If she aborts the child you want her to be guilty of murder, not the rapist. You want to make her 100% responsible for the child the rapist put inside her against her will. That is EXACTLY what you are doing. You are:


                            "ignoring what has happened to the women and foisting the responsibility for this potential child upon her."


                            Jim
                            How do you think God views a mother taking the life of her unborn child Jim? How does her taking that life make anything better regarding the rape? She will still have been raped, but now she has also killed her unborn child. Seems like things just got worse.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Again, you are saying it is not the actual hardship that is the problem, in both cases the women can handle the hardship if need be. You are saying that the woman should get a freebee, an "out" because of the circumstances of her condition.
                              That because she is a victim, her innocent baby is allowed to become a victim too, of abortion. The baby pays with it's life, while the rapist just gets a few years in prison. Is that fair?
                              No - it is not fair that the rapist only gets a few years in prison. If the rapist gets the victim pregnant, and she feels she has no choice but to abort the baby, he should get whatever sentence would be afforded infanticide. If she keeps the baby, he should be garnished child support (which should include the full cost of child care and 1/2 food, clothing etc) for the entire time the child is being raised and forced to save 1/2 the cost of college, with no parental rights of any sort. Violation of which lands the fellow back in prison for the entire 22 year period typical to take a child to independence.

                              It is ALL on him.


                              Jim
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                How do you think God views a mother taking the life of her unborn child Jim? How does her taking that life make anything better regarding the rape? She will still have been raped, but now she has also killed her unborn child. Seems like things just got worse.
                                How does God view self-defense?

                                God knows what a person can handle. And (I know you don't accept this, but it is what it is) the OT law - in the original text - apparently makes the distinction between the unformed child and the formed child when determining the punishment for a man who through his actions kills the unborn.

                                Whether it got worse for the woman would depend a lot on her own sense of what the child was at the stage of development she is weighing her options. I am pretty sure my wife would keep the child in such a case, so highly does she value life and children. But not everyone can accept that responsibility. It's going to be a horrible decision for anyone. But in this case, it is her decision to make, not mine, not yours, not the state's, and certainly not the rapist's.


                                Jim
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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