A Civil Abortion Discussion

[JonathanL]

I have a hard believing when I said "you're the only one who posted" that I meant pro-life people not on Tweb.

By writing "you're the only one who posted", immediately after quoting CP as talking about the "many of us", you're implying that the "many of us" that CP wrote about in his reply is constrained only to pro-life people within TWeb.

[guacamole]

By writing "you're the only one who posted", immediately after quoting CP as talking about the "many of us", you're implying that the "many of us" that CP wrote about in his reply is constrained only to pro-life people within TWeb.

I'm only talking about pro-lifers on Tweb. He may have meant the wider pro-life world and I constrained it to the people on Tweb. As a sample of pro-lifers doing more, CP seems to be exemplary. He is the only one of the pro-lifers on tweb who seems to be able to give any evidence of doing extra. That doesn't mean that other pro-lifers on tweb aren't doing anything extra.

I'm not really sure what your objection here is.

[rogue06]

After I finish politely smirking at your avatar which appears to portray a "yeah, I'm RIGHT!" attitude. (And, yeah, I'm reading too much into that)

As you were, Guac -- I think this thread is just a bunch of "I want to feel good without actually doing anything". I'll bow out again and let you adults continue your civility.

That has been an increasingly growing problem over the past several decades. People feel having good intentions is either as important, and in some cases even more important, than actually doing something.

[rogue06]

Unfortunately, saving the unborn isn't nearly as profitable as killing them.

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[Adrift]

After I finish politely smirking at your avatar which appears to portray a "yeah, I'm RIGHT!" attitude. (And, yeah, I'm reading too much into that)

That's a picture of Chicago police chief Eddie Johnson. He's in the news quite a bit, but received more attention recently during the Justin Smollet case.

Concerning the OP, I'm not sure there's much more that can be done outside of picking up on evangelizing the lost and the hurt. This is a cultural issue, and won't go away as long as the culture believes this has to do with Christians trampling over 1.) the rights of women (which makes this a feminist cause), and 2.) open sexuality (which makes this a free love cause). Our lifestyle, and the world's lifestyle is out of step, and Christians (at least) can't meet eye to eye without compromising on values (the world's values shift depending on the mood of the people).

So, what are things we can do? Maybe Christians shouldn't be going around making people feel like crap. Screaming in unbeliever's faces that they're going to hell, and making people who have had abortions feel like they are inhuman filth. God has the power and desire to redeem anyone and everyone. What we can do is make Christianity look like an appealing alternative to the world's system by doing what we've been called to do, caring for the poor, the widowed, single mothers and orphans. I also think influencing our media and academia would work to our advantage. Our culture is so easily swayed because it so heavily worships entertainment (news, music, tv, movies, books, games, internet, etc.). Secularists have been poisoning the world against Christianity for decades now in very subtle (and not so subtle) ways. Instead of creating Christian alternatives to these things (which doesn't do anything but preach to the choir), we need to find ways to influence the mainstream from within. I know on the academic front there's an uptick in Christian philosophers at secular universities, which is a start.

As an aside, I don't really think the government should be in the business of forcing non-Christians to accept Christian values. However, as long as Christians live within a democratic society, it's naive to think they won't vote their conscience. BUT I think we need to be wise as serpents on this. For those who vote, voting for the representative who will align with our interests, no matter how shady they come off, is doomed to backfire. Sure, we may get what we want now, but in the long term people are going to look at Christians who select very unChristian-like representation as hypocrites. And that's going to sit deeply in their minds for a very long time. It's going to make evangelism harder, and it's going to make Christians look like crooks.

Ultimately, this may all be moot. As the world gets darker, and Christians are further pushed out of spheres of influence all we can really do is keep our light shining, and give people hope for something different than what the world offers until Christ's return. This won't be the first time we've been through this, and in some places of the world it's been like this.

[Mountain Man]

Source: Breitbart

Activists surrounded and screamed at pro-life student Boris Kizenko during a pro-abortion #StoptheBans protest Tuesday on Capitol Hill.

“People threatened me here, people pushed me. I was hit over the side of my head… I think that just shows that there’s a double standard between the left and the right.” Kizenko, a student at Holmdel High School in New Jersey and executive director of High Schoolers for Freedom told Breitbart News’ cameras before being cut off by insults and screams.

Planned Parenthood, NARAL, the Women’s March, and other leftwing groups were protesting across the country at some 400 demonstrations, holding what they call a “day of action for abortion rights.

https://www.breitbart.com/videos/wat...-the-fck-home/

© Copyright Original Source

These are people who are obviously willing to keep an open mind and see both sides of the issue. Reaching a compromise should be easy.

[rogue06]

Source: Breitbart

Activists surrounded and screamed at pro-life student Boris Kizenko during a pro-abortion #StoptheBans protest Tuesday on Capitol Hill.

“People threatened me here, people pushed me. I was hit over the side of my head… I think that just shows that there’s a double standard between the left and the right.” Kizenko, a student at Holmdel High School in New Jersey and executive director of High Schoolers for Freedom told Breitbart News’ cameras before being cut off by insults and screams.

Planned Parenthood, NARAL, the Women’s March, and other leftwing groups were protesting across the country at some 400 demonstrations, holding what they call a “day of action for abortion rights.

https://www.breitbart.com/videos/wat...-the-fck-home/

© Copyright Original Source

These are people who are obviously willing to keep an open mind and see both sides of the issue.

If Kizenko was wearing a MAGA hat then he obviously deserved it, but OTOH, if he walked right up to the protestors banging a tomtom in their face that changes everything.

[Mountain Man]

That has been an increasingly growing problem over the past several decades. People feel having good intentions is either as important, and in some cases even more important, than actually doing something.

It's like not buying someone a gift, and you tell them, "It's the thought that counts, and I thought about it."

[JonathanL]

I'm only talking about pro-lifers on Tweb. He may have meant the wider pro-life world and I constrained it to the people on Tweb. As a sample of pro-lifers doing more, CP seems to be exemplary. He is the only one of the pro-lifers on tweb who seems to be able to give any evidence of doing extra. That doesn't mean that other pro-lifers on tweb aren't doing anything extra.

I'm not really sure what your objection here is.

Well, my initial point was that you were misunderstanding CP, but after reading this post where you clarified what you meant I'll have to change it to: "You need to get better at communicating your point, because what you wrote previously and what you intended to say with those words do not completely match up with each other"

[Mountain Man]

Nancy Pelosi:

"This is about family planning. It’s about birth control. They like to argue the case in some words that aren’t true but are alarming to people about abortions that must take place in the late term, the health of the mother whatever, but they describe it terribly, and it has a market. That’s why they do it. What woman should know is this is not about just that. It’s about family planning, and access to women’s health, it’s about in vitro fertilization to have babies.

"This is about lack of respect for woman. This is about some fear that is in our community, our society about women having the ability to have the size and timing of their families working with their husbands, with their doctors, with their God whatever it is, but to just see it as a choice issue is one piece of it. It’s about lack of respect, and it’s reflected when they won’t give equal pay or family medical leave, which really benefits woman and the rest."

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...fear-of-women/

Sure sounds like someone who is ready to compromise and reduce the number of abortions, doesn't it?

[Cow Poke]

That's a picture of Chicago police chief Eddie Johnson.

Yes sir, it's just that is facial expression is a bit

[rogue06]

Yes sir, it's just that is facial expression is a bit

You sure you don't work for the Washington Post or CNN or sumone like that?

[Cow Poke]

You sure you don't work for the Washington Post or CNN or sumone like that?

Not any more.

[tabibito]

You sure you don't work for the Washington Post or CNN or sumone like that?

Not any more.

CP: You're not sure anymore that you don't work for Washington Post or whoever? Do you have evidence giving you reason to doubt yourself?

[Cow Poke]

CP: You're not sure anymore that you don't work for Washington Post or whoever?

Yes, particularly the whoever.

Do you have evidence giving you reason to doubt yourself?

It's the profound lack of evidence that concerns me.