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Thread: Origin of life status

  1. #61
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Exploring mysteries is fine, I think we know enough about life to be able to estimate a bound on the probability of it forming naturally, and that probability bound is very low.
    So? The anthropic principle and a posteriori probabilities render this moot.
    But which probabilities do you mean?
    The ones you were talking about, which you seem to have forgotten.
    And the anthropic principle doesn't prove anything, unless you assume that the supernatural is impossible.
    That's gibberish.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

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  2. #62
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    So we return yet again to the God of the gaps approach
    No, it's when natural explanations fail, when we know enough to be able to estimate the probability of natural explanations, and a natural explanation turns out to be improbable. It's like forensics, where if a natural explanation fails, we then suspect human intervention.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  3. #63
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    The arguments of Hubert Yockey's unethical use of probability and statistics, by the way the same as ID advocates, have been addressed before several times with references.
    So Cambridge Press was duped? I think not. Substantial biomolecules must have first formed randomly, and such probabilities have been published, and you have not addressed Hubert Yockey here, for instance. And I have responded to your papers, and you have not responded to my points.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  4. #64
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    The ones you were talking about, which you seem to have forgotten.
    How are the probabilities I was talking about a posteriori? Or I must be misunderstanding you.

    That's gibberish.
    No, the anthropic principle depends on a naturalistic worldview, ISTM.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  5. #65
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    So Cambridge Press was duped? I think not. Substantial biomolecules must have first formed randomly, and such probabilities have been published, and you have not addressed Hubert Yockey here, for instance. And I have responded to your papers, and you have not responded to my points.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Failure to respond. Still waiting . . .

    There is no objective verifiable evidence that it is improbable. IT is only speculation based on unethical use of statistics as previously cited in a number of previous threads. Do I need to post it again?!?!?!

    The arguments of Hubert Yockey's unethical use of probability and statistics, by the way the same as ID advocates, have been addressed before several times with references.

    Abiogenesis nor evolution are based on 'objective verifiable evidence' and progressive research and discoveries, and not estimates of probabilities. No objective verifiable evidence based on a 'positive' falsifiable hypothesis supported by science has been presented to support the Yockey's assertions and those of the ID assertions.

    Still waiting . . .
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

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    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  6. #66
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, it's when natural explanations fail, when we know enough to be able to estimate the probability of natural explanations, and a natural explanation turns out to be improbable.
    There are always two probabilities that are impossible to calculate:
    The probability that something supernatural is involved.
    The probability of a natural explanation that we're not aware of or haven't considered.

    Without those probabilities, there's no reason to consider anything other than "we don't know yet."
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  7. Amen shunyadragon, Leonhard amen'd this post.
  8. #67
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    How are the probabilities I was talking about a posteriori? Or I must be misunderstanding you.


    No, the anthropic principle depends on a naturalistic worldview, ISTM.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    The anthropic principle is not a necessary conclusion for a naturalistic worldview.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #68
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill
    I think we know enough about life to be able to estimate a bound on the probability of it forming naturally
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    How are the probabilities I was talking about a posteriori?
    Because you're talking about events that have already happened; about knowledge gained from experience. Either you don't know what a posteriori means, or you think life doesn't exist yet.
    No, the anthropic principle depends on a naturalistic worldview, ISTM.
    It doesn't, and that it might seem to to you is of no import.

    Your posts are so obviously nonsense that they don't need refuting and aren't worth practicing on. Aadios.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  10. #69
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    There are always two probabilities that are impossible to calculate:
    The probability that something supernatural is involved.
    That's just 1-probability(nature did it).

    The probability of a natural explanation that we're not aware of or haven't considered.

    Without those probabilities, there's no reason to consider anything other than "we don't know yet."
    That won't hold up in court, "Your honor, we don't know yet, because there might be a natural explanation for my car hitting that other car."

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  11. #70
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Because you're talking about events that have already happened; about knowledge gained from experience. Either you don't know what a posteriori means, or you think life doesn't exist yet.
    "A posteriori definition, from particular instances to a general principle or law; based upon actual observation or upon experimental data."

    That would not be the same as estimating the probability of a biomolecule forming.

    It doesn't, and that it might seem to to you is of no import.
    If a supernatural entity is involved in creating life, then the anthropic principal is blown to bits.

    Your posts are so obviously nonsense that they don't need refuting and aren't worth practicing on. Aadios.
    A Dios!

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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