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  • #31
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    At my last workplace, one of my co-workers got his job back after getting caught driving a mail truck under the influence. That's unacceptable.
    Wholly.
    Though it is long in the past (1920s), there was a man who was sacked for running after he finished work ... the rationale being that if he had enough energy to run at the end of the day, he had been slacking. The union got him reinstated.
    Bus drivers (less than 20 years ago) were to be provided a suitable facilities to use during their meal breaks ... the company decided that "suitable facilities" were a roadside stop adjacent to a public toilet. The union had that little piece of nonsense stopped.
    Long lists of wrongs committed against workers, some trivial others significant, addressed by unions - including creative methods to cheat people out of their proper pay. Laws were introduced to pull the unions' teeth, and offences have been on the increase. By offences - I mean things that now go to court after long delays instead of being dealt with post haste.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I agree, and I'm saying that as somebody who is generally pro-union.
      Because this isn't "workers vs management" over turning out products or services. In fact, I think there's way too much "management" and not enough "workers" in education. There are the teachers who teach, and the educrats whose goal seems to be to get a school building named after them.

      There has to be a middle ground that gives due process for teachers who are fired unfairly without going so far out of the way to protect the bad apples, and in any profession that has so many employees, there are going to be some bad apples. This is one profession where you really have to get rid of them.
      It's all about Why Johnny Can't Read

      In the early 1950s, Rudolf Flesch offered to tutor a boy who'd been held back in sixth grade because he couldn't read. ... Flesch wrote a bestseller called Why Johnny Can't Read, in which he blasted the American education system for failing to teach phonics


      If we were to allow the autoworkers to turn out the dismally failed products that our schools do....
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Because this isn't "workers vs management" over turning out products or services. In fact, I think there's way too much "management" and not enough "workers" in education. There are the teachers who teach, and the educrats whose goal seems to be to get a school building named after them.



        It's all about Why Johnny Can't Read

        In the early 1950s, Rudolf Flesch offered to tutor a boy who'd been held back in sixth grade because he couldn't read. ... Flesch wrote a bestseller called Why Johnny Can't Read, in which he blasted the American education system for failing to teach phonics


        If we were to allow the autoworkers to turn out the dismally failed products that our schools do....
        It's not all on the teachers, by a long shot. It's difficult for the teacher to do much with a student having but one parent at home, and that one not very interested in how Johnny's education is progressing, and whose friends are in the same boat.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          It's not all on the teachers, by a long shot.
          Agreed, 100%, which is why I said "there's way too much "management" and not enough "workers" in education".... if they were just allowed to teach, most teachers I know have the patience, skill and know-how to get it done.

          It's difficult for the teacher to do much with a student having but one parent at home, and that one not very interested in how Johnny's education is progressing, and whose friends are in the same boat.
          My teachers knew my parents by their first names. The "social engineering" that has constantly been attacking the nuclear family has taken a toll.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            It's not all on the teachers, by a long shot. It's difficult for the teacher to do much with a student having but one parent at home, and that one not very interested in how Johnny's education is progressing, and whose friends are in the same boat.
            And to add to that, unrealistic classroom management demands where the administration may not back up the teachers who attempt to crack down on discipline.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              And to add to that, unrealistic classroom management demands where the administration may not back up the teachers who attempt to crack down on discipline.
              When I taught Junior High some years back, that was a HUGE problem. The 'rules' of the "progressive discipline" were spelled out in large print on a banner over the chalkboard in the classroom. The students knew EXACTLY how far they could go before you were allowed to send them to the principal's office, and they'd go just 'to the edge', then pull back and start again.

              I actually got called into the principal's office for being 'too strict' on a student who literally peed on the floor in the classroom, and I failed to give him a 'verbal warning' before writing him up. That was my last day in a public school classroom as a teacher.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                Wop-wops? Amazing ... here it's "Woop-woop" where the term is used.
                You also call jandals thongs.
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                The argument that the inconvenience of living in the Never-never balances the expense of living in more convenient environs does have some merit, methinks.
                Yeah but with the recent massive increase in the cost of housing in Auckland, some schools are battling to get teachers because the teacher literally can't afford to live within commuting distance of the school. And because the salary is set nationally (and paid by the govt) the individual schools can't offer teachers more

                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                If it follows the usual pattern, there will be a perfectly valid and acceptable excuse for her actions. (though it is likely she won't be allowed to teach again, if found guilty)
                There is video evidence, and if any of the boys were underage (16), she is looking at jail.
                And you still have a bunch of people saying it's fine and she should not get any punishment as what teenage heterosexual boy wouldn't want to have sex with a female teacher.
                Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                1 Corinthians 16:13

                "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                -Ben Witherington III

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                  You also call jandals thongs.
                  Until I looked up "jandals" I had an, er... entirely different type of thong in mind

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Until I looked up "jandals" I had an, er... entirely different type of thong in mind
                    And then there's rubbers.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Tenure laws were designed to protect teachers from the exact sorts of political actions that Sparko is talking about. If they fired all of the non-tenured teachers, then there is likely nothing the union can do. In Illinois, which is already a strong union state, non-tenured teachers can be dismissed (either simply by not having their contract renewed, or by directly being fired) up to the end of their last non-tenured year.

                      Despite what the conservative policy makers would have you believe, tenure is not a bullet proof guarantee of a job for a bad teacher. Again, speaking as a teacher in a strong union state, RIFs (Reduction in Forces) go through based first on effectiveness and then on seniority within the effectiveness rankings--even for tenured teachers. Additionally, we have and will lay off tenured staff who break or flaunt school rules. Tenure is no guarantee of a job, only a guarantee of due process. If a principal wants to get a tenured teacher fired, there is a path of actions to follow.

                      I would be astonished if sending a child home to a house where there is no adult supervision (as was stated in the article), and thereby breaking the chain of child-custody, isn't enough to get a teacher temporarily reassigned while the wheels of justice turn, and ultimately fired, as child-custody is the foundational ethic of teaching. This is why, again at least in my state, the teacher's attendance records are legal documents. I have to be able to guarantee that if I say a kid is with me, then the kid is with me. I myself could no legally send any child home or anywhere else out of the direct supervision of school staff on my own. I would certainly get suspended and removed from my class if did so.

                      fwiw,
                      guacamole
                      "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                      Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                      Save me, save me"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Y'all talk English real funny like.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                          Tenure laws were designed to protect teachers from the exact sorts of political actions that Sparko is talking about. If they fired all of the non-tenured teachers, then there is likely nothing the union can do. In Illinois, which is already a strong union state, non-tenured teachers can be dismissed (either simply by not having their contract renewed, or by directly being fired) up to the end of their last non-tenured year.

                          Despite what the conservative policy makers would have you believe, tenure is not a bullet proof guarantee of a job for a bad teacher. Again, speaking as a teacher in a strong union state, RIFs (Reduction in Forces) go through based first on effectiveness and then on seniority within the effectiveness rankings--even for tenured teachers. Additionally, we have and will lay off tenured staff who break or flaunt school rules. Tenure is no guarantee of a job, only a guarantee of due process. If a principal wants to get a tenured teacher fired, there is a path of actions to follow.
                          NZ doesn't have a tenure system. And school staffing levels are determined by the number of of students attending the school, and as I mentioned paid for by the Govt. If a school's roll drops, then the less teachers next year. If the roll increases, then more teachers....if you can find them (we have a teacher shortage).
                          Firing a bad teacher, unless they break the law, is a long and difficult process. And given the teacher shortage, can cause it's own problems,

                          Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                          I would be astonished if sending a child home to a house where there is no adult supervision (as was stated in the article), and thereby breaking the chain of child-custody, isn't enough to get a teacher temporarily reassigned while the wheels of justice turn, and ultimately fired, as child-custody is the foundational ethic of teaching. This is why, again at least in my state, the teacher's attendance records are legal documents. I have to be able to guarantee that if I say a kid is with me, then the kid is with me. I myself could no legally send any child home or anywhere else out of the direct supervision of school staff on my own. I would certainly get suspended and removed from my class if did so.
                          The teacher should have got the school office to phone, rather than just sending an email to his mum, But we also only have her side of the story, and depending on how close the kid lived to the school (must have been very close if he could go home and change and get back to school quickly) it may have been fairly reasonable.
                          And the incident occurred at 8.25am, I don't know the details of the school in question, but if school starts at 9am (common for most NZ primary schools) then the school often doesn't accept legal responsibility for the kids until 8:30am

                          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/edu...ng-enough-pink
                          Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                          1 Corinthians 16:13

                          "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                          -Ben Witherington III

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Y'all talk English real funny like.
                            How To Dad explains it.





                            Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                            1 Corinthians 16:13

                            "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                            -Ben Witherington III

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                              How To Dad explains it.





                              Thanks, I got it!
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                And then there's rubbers.
                                I've known about the English usage of that word since Middle School.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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