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Thread: Dr. Heiser, "Fern and Audrey", Satanic Ritual Abuse, and Talking to Angels

  1. #11
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    In my opinion, there probably is a good bit of "abuse" out there. After all, the CIA openly admits to engaging in witchcraft. Most of the country's political leaders are wicked, and most of the churches are weak. It is only logical that there would be abuse.

    That said, if they are charging that much then it does sound like a scam. And in my opinion, regression therapy is almost sorcery in itself. Certainly a dubious source of information.

  2. #12
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Yep, that makes sense. Dr. Heiser is well respected as a scholar, and very vocal and active in apologetic and Evangelistic circles.
    Oh YeS!

    Heiser advocates that interpreting the Bible in context means reading it in light of the context that produced it instead of Christian tradition or modern thinking. Readers discover a radical new relevance and coherence when they read the Bible through the eyes of its writer. Years ago, this passion for convincing readers of the importance of an ancient worldview prompted Dr. Heiser to create The Naked Bible blog and the popular Naked Bible Podcast.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  3. #13
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    A common error of these kinds of ministries is that they tend to ignore the fact that even in the Bible, grand miracles, including healing, are rare. Jesus and some of the "first generation" apostles appear to have had the gift, but the further in history we move away from Jesus, it seems that gift has diminished.

    The other error they make is (perhaps deliberately) taking scripture out of context and misinterpreting it. They try to sell healing and miracles as something we are entitled to if we just have enough "faith", but we see by the example of the Apostle Paul that even as great a man as he was for the gospel, it was not God's will to heal his "thorn in the flesh".

    All we can really do is study the Bible, pray continually, trust God, and just do the best we can for his glory no matter the circumstances.

    (And for the record, this is not theoretical for me. In my current situation, I would love more than anything for God to perform a healing miracle because someone very close to me could die before the end of year, so trust me when I tell you that I pray about it every day, multiple times a day, but I also know that God is sovereign and merciful, and he will do what is best.)
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #14
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    This really does sound pretty strange.

  5. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  6. #15
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    A common error of these kinds of ministries is that they tend to ignore the fact that even in the Bible, grand miracles, including healing, are rare. Jesus and some of the "first generation" apostles appear to have had the gift, but the further in history we move away from Jesus, it seems that gift has diminished.

    The other error they make is (perhaps deliberately) taking scripture out of context and misinterpreting it. They try to sell healing and miracles as something we are entitled to if we just have enough "faith", but we see by the example of the Apostle Paul that even as great a man as he was for the gospel, it was not God's will to heal his "thorn in the flesh".

    All we can really do is study the Bible, pray continually, trust God, and just do the best we can for his glory no matter the circumstances.

    (And for the record, this is not theoretical for me. In my current situation, I would love more than anything for God to perform a healing miracle because someone very close to me could die before the end of year, so trust me when I tell you that I pray about it every day, multiple times a day, but I also know that God is sovereign and merciful, and he will do what is best.)
    This is actually a ministry against those sorts of ministries. They are more or less anti-faith healing, or anti-Deliverance ministry. They feel it's their job to help people who were actually hurt by ministries that actually attempted exorcisms, and faith healing. They claim that most of their techniques, then, are psychiatry-based (even though they themselves are not psychiatrists), and they do, in fact, occasionally cite psychiatric literature when they are on Dr. Heiser's show. They don't try to exorcise demons from people, because 1.) they don't believe the spiritual entities attacking them are necessarily demons, and 2.) they think exorcism is actually causing the harm to the patient to begin with.

    Unfortunately, it's hard to really describe what their ministry actually does then, because they, themselves, are pretty vague and secretive about it. And the problem isn't that they're a super-supernatural faith healing ministry, it's other areas that they're weird in, like their belief that many of their patients may have been victims of Satanic Ritual Abuse, or part of MKUltra-like programs. Or that they're into regression therapy, and accept outdated psychiatric views like split-personality disorder. They believe that these split personalities actually help the patient because it helps them hide the hurt part of their nature. They also don't believe that their patients who have exhibited demonic characteristics are being demonized, but instead are being messed with by "Cosmics", which they're pulling from Dr. Heiser's work (though he, himself, never calls them "Cosmics" as far as I know), who are essentially the principalities, and powers mentioned in the Epistles, and that Dr. Heiser connects with the judged sons of God of the Divine Council found in Psalm 82.

  7. #16
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    I suspect that satanic ritual abuse isn't a real thing at all.

  8. #17
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    I suspect that satanic ritual abuse isn't a real thing at all.
    Yeah, neither do I. I've known some "Satanists" over the years. Your average Satanist isn't smart enough to coordinate or be part of a secret underground conspiracy to kidnap children, molest them on alters, mind warp them MK Ultra style, and then send them out to be little Manchurian Candidates. It makes for great fiction, and I'm sure people who are into this stuff think it's really creepy and fascinating, but they've been reading too much Clive Barker or something. That isn't to say that Satanists aren't clever at mass manipulation, however. While the Church of Satan has pretty much fallen from its glory days as a sort of Nietzschean-Ayn Randian, hippy, group-sex hang out, for people playing with the occult. It eventually devolved into its present state as a sort of pale faced, D&D nerd hang out for folks who want to get a rise out of mommy and daddy. The Satanic Temple, however, is where the action is at today. The group started off as theistically Satanic, but dropped the claim to being theistic, claiming now to be atheistsic as they run around putting Baphomet statues in public Christmas displays so that local governments will ban religious displays outright. They claim to be atheistic, but they recently claimed to be a religion in order to get tax exempt status. Now, here's a conspiracy I think is easier to accept. I don't think they're atheistic at all. I think it's more than probable that they're still theistic Satanists (at least at the top) and are lying about being theists so that the public will take them half way seriously. And they are being taken seriously. Every time they're in the news, Reddit upvotes the crap out of articles on them, and you'll find nothing but praise for their work and who they are within the comments section. I don't think they're using MK Ultra methods, however, nor do I think they are kidnapping children.

  9. Amen KingsGambit amen'd this post.
  10. #18
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    The only "professing Satanist" I knew also had a habit of huffing glue.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  11. #19
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    The only "professing Satanist" I knew also had a habit of huffing glue.
    Hey, that rhymes!

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