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Thread: Faith and Works: The Relationship between Faith, Works, and Salvation in the NT

  1. #171
    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    I ask again - Can we honestly claim to believe in Christ if we do not believe what he says? Does Christ set us free only from the penalty for sin, or from sin and the penalty for sin? [par. 5]
    The so-called free-grace–lordship salvation debate may be reduced to the question of whether deliverance from the power and practice of sin is, in some sense, optional or extraneous to the attainment of personal salvation.
    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

  2. #172
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    No one has, or ever will, be justified/declared righteous by observing a system of law: ‘[B]y works of law no flesh shall be justified before him; for by law [is] knowledge of sin’ (Rom. 3.20, Darby Translation; cp. Gal. 3.11). Even prior to the old-covenant era, faith in God and his promises was the condition for justification (see Rom. 4).
    The Bible itself rephrases this one - and in doing so, points out why mere adherence to the law cannot save.
    Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (The Koine Greek takes quite a bit of unpacking - but it seems on a cursory read that some of the nuance has suffered in translation).

    deliverance from the power and practice of sin
    Deliverance from the power of sin is a concomitant of faith, I think. Deliverance from the practice of sin - that is volitional (I don't think optional or extraneous really apply here). There also seems to be a radical difference between the outcomes of failing in an attempt and failing to attempt.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  3. #173
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Remonstrant View Post
    In this thread, I would like to enquire of participants their understanding regarding the relationship between faith and works in the New Testament. Questions such as the following may be considered:

    • How should the nature of faith be defined?
    • Does Paul contradict James on the role of faith and works in justification/salvation? (If so, how? If not, how may the two be reconciled?
    • Do you believe sola fide (faith alone) to be a doctrine that is faithful to the scriptures (or, at least, to the Pauline corpus)?
    • Are the New Testament authors non-contradictory on the relationship between faith and works? (Are attempts at harmonisation possible, improbable, or forced?)
    • On the whole, are good works in some sense necessary for salvation (particularly the attainment of final/eschatological salvation)?

    2. The contradiction is verbal, not real. What James rejects, is not what St Paul proposes. James is a close echo of the Teaching of Christ, which St Paul adapts parts of, but does not betray.
    3. Yes, definitely. Faith is the alone way by which we can come to God through Christ, because neither works done before justification without Christ, nor works done in Christ after justification, justify us before God. To come to God, we can come only as God enables us to do so, not as we might think fit.
    4. There is no contradiction. IMO, harmonisation is needless, & a bad idea, because it ignores and artificially smooths out the distinctive witness of each writer - and that does wrong to the God-breathed message of each one. I really dislike harmonising Scripture.
    5. Not so much “necessary”, as unavoidable. A soul in whom God is fruitfully present, cannot avoid bringing forth good fruit. It would be utterly unnatural and perverse for such a soul not to. Such a soul, because Christ is in some measure formed in it, will in that measure love and long for what is Christ’s, and will rejoice to do Christ’s works. Not because it is ordered to, but because it hungers and thirsts to do so. If Christ was on Earth not idle in well-doing, how can that soul be idle ?

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