Should ex-felons be allowed to vote?

[Leonhard]

In Denmark felons also have the right to vote, and cast their votes inside the prisons. Granted we have an order of magnitude less of a criminal population than the US does, but even then I don't see the big issue here. A felon doesn't stop being a citizen, and it seems weird if felons who have served their term would still be punished by a dhimmitude as a second-class citizen.

That just appears to be a punishment that continues long after the court appointed punishment is over.

[Leonhard]

Maybe something like that, and they'd have to apply for reinstatement just like they'd have to apply for parole.

Could it also be a reinstatement that actually makes sense, and not the Florida version where its a jury of three people who arbitrarily (in their own admission) decides whether a person should or should not be allowed to vote again.

There's a rather chilling example of a black man who had crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's, was a church goer (one of the few instances in the US where religion may be applied in a test - one of the "judges" always asks about it), had lived upstandingly for a decade. And he still was turned down. When he asked why, or when he could expect their decision to change, the man in charge just shrugged and smiled and said something to the effect of "Well.. I don't know, I can't give you an answer now. Try again some other time."

At least we should be able to agree that there should be a just and transparent pathway to get those rights restored again.

Edit: Just found out that Florida did vote on it, and have given ex-felons the right to vote. Though Republican law makers threw in a change requiring all fee's and fines be paid back in full before they were restored. As a left-leaning scoundrel, I'll have to say this looks very much like the Republicans simply rewarding wealthy people, and/or (more likely) protecting their voting base, without an actual concern for whether what they do is just here.

[Cow Poke]

Could it also be a reinstatement that actually makes sense, and not the Florida version where its a jury of three people who arbitrarily (in their own admission) decides whether a person should or should not be allowed to vote again.

There's a rather chilling example of a black man who had crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's, was a church goer (one of the few instances in the US where religion may be applied in a test - one of the "judges" always asks about it), had lived upstandingly for a decade. And he still was turned down. When he asked why, or when he could expect their decision to change, the man in charge just shrugged and smiled and said something to the effect of "Well.. I don't know, I can't give you an answer now. Try again some other time."

At least we should be able to agree that there should be a just and transparent pathway to get those rights restored again.

This is more of a curiosity to me than a hill on which I wish to die.

[Leonhard]

I'm not generally interested in the opinions of felons, and don't think they should vote.

I'll be cheeky here and just point out that Our Lord Jesus Christ died a convicted felon among convicted felons, and listened to the thief hanging on a cross next to Him.

[Leonhard]

This is more of a curiosity to me than a hill on which I wish to die.

That reminds me of the comment of a bygone right-wing politician back when Denmark was threatened by a socialist revolution during a national worker strike. Prime Minister Stauning was working out a "New Deal" type negotiation with the workers, setting the bed rock for the welfare state. Not exactly to the liking of the right-wingers. But as they told him:

"We can't vote for it, but we won't vote against it"

[Cow Poke]

I'll be cheeky here and just point out that Our Lord Jesus Christ died a convicted felon among convicted felons, and listened to the thief hanging on a cross next to Him.

OK, so wrongly convicted felons who have never sinned are exempt!

[Leonhard]

OK, so wrongly convicted felons who have never sinned are exempt!

Ah, but didn't Christ warn us that He'll look at us at the Day of Judgement, that we'll be judged by how we've treated "the least one of these", as what we've done to them we did to him personally?

Granted this has nothing to do with whether ex-felons should have their voting right restored. Some societies have second-class citizens, and this would be a form of that. And that might just be something the US considers a natural part of the punishment for certain crimes.

[JimL]

I'm not talking about current felons. Bernie Sanders has been pushing to allow people to vote from prison. I definitely think that's crazy. But what about ex-felons? Once you've paid your debt to society, so the theory goes, shouldn't you have your full constitutional rights back?

Nevada apparently thinks so; they've passed a law immediately restoring such rights. https://www.rgj.com/story/news/polit...kiK7dJBTuChOXA

Of course. There is no good reason that ex-felons should be denied the right to vote. They are not felons, they are ex-felons. I agree with Sanders, even felons should be allowed to vote, they're still citizens.

[Cow Poke]

Ah, but didn't Christ warn us that He'll look at us at the Day of Judgement, that we'll be judged by how we've treated "the least one of these", as what we've done to them we did to him personally?

Granted this has nothing to do with whether ex-felons should have their voting right restored. Some societies have second-class citizens, and this would be a form of that. And that might just be something the US considers a natural part of the punishment for certain crimes.

I'm actually in the prisoner reentry business, so... you're preaching to the choir, my friend.

[Mountain Man]

I'll be cheeky here and just point out that Our Lord Jesus Christ died a convicted felon among convicted felons, and listened to the thief hanging on a cross next to Him.

You might want to qualify that Jesus was wrongly convicted in a crooked court.

[Cow Poke]

Of course. There is no good reason that ex-felons should be denied the right to vote. They are not felons, they are ex-felons.

Not according to an actual dictionary, Jimmy.

Law. a person who has committed a felony.
Archaic. a wicked person.

Usage note:

Once a person is no longer engaged in crime we can say "He's a former criminal." And once a person is no longer incarcerated, we can say "She's an ex-convict." Though both statements carry a stigma, they leave open the possibility that the people in question have changed their behavior. But this does not seem to be the case with the term felon , which appears to have no time limit. Once a person has been convicted of a felony, he or she can be considered a felon for life, according to the strict meaning of the word. (The term ex-felon , for example, is rarely used.) Advocates for the reform of our criminal justice system point out that this usage makes it even harder for rehabilitated former criminals to reintegrate into society and thereby turn away from a life of crime.

[JimL]

You might want to qualify that Jesus was wrongly convicted in a crooked court.

According to the bible at least, but not according to the state, I'm sure.

[myth]

Ah, but didn't Christ warn us that He'll look at us at the Day of Judgement, that we'll be judged by how we've treated "the least one of these", as what we've done to them we did to him personally?

Granted this has nothing to do with whether ex-felons should have their voting right restored. Some societies have second-class citizens, and this would be a form of that. And that might just be something the US considers a natural part of the punishment for certain crimes.

On what basis do you assume that the right of felons to vote isn't about...the right of felons to vote? Because that's exactly what it's about. You're assuming a more nefarious motive for those who oppose it, without any facts to back up that assumption.

[Leonhard]

On what basis do you assume that the right of felons to vote isn't about...the right of felons to vote?

I think you're on your own as to what the sentence above means. Obviously you don't believe ex-convicts should have the right to vote, or if they should get it back that it should be an extremely lengthy process "10-15 years".

You stated that you were uninterested in the opinion of felons, and I decided to poke that for fun.

You're assuming a more nefarious motive for those who oppose it, without any facts to back up that assumption.

I think you're the one making weird assumptions here. At best I can see that the Republicans won't be motivated to extend voting rights to ex-convicts, which is exactly what we've seen in Florida - but that's a particular situation.

I personally don't see any good reason why convicts shouldn't be able to vote inside the prisons, as long as they are citizens. That's after all how its done in my country. Creating a defacto second-class citizen role, isn't the best way to get criminals reintegrated into society.

[Leonhard]

You might want to qualify that Jesus was wrongly convicted in a crooked court.

That would be a meaningless distinction, especially in the ANE world the Apostles lived in. Christ would be a crucified criminal, one among many nuisances the Roman Empire had to stamp down in that area. It made Christianity quite a hard sell, and there's no doubt that the only reason Christianity did become popular was due to the Holy Spirit's inspiration.