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Thread: Defending Homosexuality Condemns Abortion?

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Defending Homosexuality Condemns Abortion?

    Maybe you guys have seen this before, but I thought it deserves its own thread.

    Apparently, at least one defender of homosexuality attempts to use a (out of context) scripture phrase (because Pete Buttigieg has come out as the new face of 'acceptable Christianity') to justify the claim that "God made me that way".

    Interestingly enough, the passage from which that 'justification' was ripped is the one the pro-life crowd uses to show that we are known by God while still in our mother's womb.

    I stated this in another thread, but I didn't want it to get lost in Tassman's defense of Buttigieg as a "practicing Christian", so I post it here....


    Robert C Bordone, a Clinical Professor of Law at Harvard Law School, writes in an article defending Buttigieg's "faith"....

    Like Mayor Pete, I was a bit of a late bloomer, coming out at the age of 30. Many factors held me back, including the official teaching of my Catholic faith, perceived family expectations and my own fears that being gay would deprive me of a host of professional and personal aspirations. Like Mayor Pete, I did all I could do to deny my reality and make dating women work.

    In the intervening years since coming out, I have reconciled my faith with my sexuality and been fortunate enough to find a local Catholic community that supports me fully for who I am, as someone who, in the words of Psalm 139, is “fearfully and wonderfully made.”


    As I have stated, Buttigieg doesn't "interpret" scripture to justify his defiance of biblical teaching - he simply ignores the relevant passages. THIS GUY, Bordone, goes one step further, in ripping a verse out of context, and WHAT CONTEXT IS THAT?

    The very passage that pro-lifers often cite to show that we are "persons" in our mother's womb....

    Scripture Verse: Psalm 139

    13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
    14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.
    15 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
    16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

    © Copyright Original Source



    So, in an idiotic attempt to prove "God made Pete that way", Bordone rips a phrase out of a passage that condemns Buttigieg's "the beginning of human life is unknowable" idiocy.

    “For those who have a strong view about some of these almost unknowable questions around life, the best answer I can give, is that because we will never be able to settle those questions, in a consensus fashion,” he said in response to a question about abortion limits.


    So, "Practicing Christian Pete" was "fearfully and wonderfully made" by God, knitted together in his mother's womb, with his unformed substance written down in God's book, but the beginning of human life is "unknowable"...

    I wonder if Bordone even has a clue that he just condemned Buttigieg's aggressive pro-abortion activism.

    ETA: Please note - this thread is NOT to reexamine whether Buttigieg is a "practicing Christian" or not - it's focused on the attempt to use the same scripture to justify "being born gay" that is also used to show that we are persons in our mother's womb.
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 05-25-2019 at 04:08 PM.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    “For those who have a strong view about some of these almost unknowable questions around life, the best answer I can give, is that because we will never be able to settle those questions, in a consensus fashion,” he said in response to a question about abortion limits.


    He got that bit right at least - we don't even have a consensus on the readily observable fact that the world is globular.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

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    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
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    I've always seen the left as contradicting itself when they say that all human beings are equal in the contexts of race and sexuality, but then somehow some are less equal than others in the context of development, i.e., if they're below a certain stage then they aren't to be considered worthy of protection and can be eliminated at will. And of course everyone picks a different developmental stage to draw that line.

    Either everyone is equal, or not. They can't seem to pick one and stick with it.
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    That is really bad exegesis.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    That is really bad exegesis.
    You found some of that in there? How?
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Maybe you guys have seen this before, but I thought it deserves its own thread.

    Apparently, at least one defender of homosexuality attempts to use a (out of context) scripture phrase (because Pete Buttigieg has come out as the new face of 'acceptable Christianity') to justify the claim that "God made me that way".

    Interestingly enough, the passage from which that 'justification' was ripped is the one the pro-life crowd uses to show that we are known by God while still in our mother's womb.

    I stated this in another thread, but I didn't want it to get lost in Tassman's defense of Buttigieg as a "practicing Christian", so I post it here....


    Robert C Bordone, a Clinical Professor of Law at Harvard Law School, writes in an article defending Buttigieg's "faith"....

    Like Mayor Pete, I was a bit of a late bloomer, coming out at the age of 30. Many factors held me back, including the official teaching of my Catholic faith, perceived family expectations and my own fears that being gay would deprive me of a host of professional and personal aspirations. Like Mayor Pete, I did all I could do to deny my reality and make dating women work.

    In the intervening years since coming out, I have reconciled my faith with my sexuality and been fortunate enough to find a local Catholic community that supports me fully for who I am, as someone who, in the words of Psalm 139, is “fearfully and wonderfully made.”


    As I have stated, Buttigieg doesn't "interpret" scripture to justify his defiance of biblical teaching - he simply ignores the relevant passages. THIS GUY, Bordone, goes one step further, in ripping a verse out of context, and WHAT CONTEXT IS THAT?

    The very passage that pro-lifers often cite to show that we are "persons" in our mother's womb....

    Scripture Verse: Psalm 139

    13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
    14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.
    15 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
    16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

    © Copyright Original Source



    So, in an idiotic attempt to prove "God made Pete that way", Bordone rips a phrase out of a passage that condemns Buttigieg's "the beginning of human life is unknowable" idiocy.

    “For those who have a strong view about some of these almost unknowable questions around life, the best answer I can give, is that because we will never be able to settle those questions, in a consensus fashion,” he said in response to a question about abortion limits.


    So, "Practicing Christian Pete" was "fearfully and wonderfully made" by God, knitted together in his mother's womb, with his unformed substance written down in God's book, but the beginning of human life is "unknowable"...

    I wonder if Bordone even has a clue that he just condemned Buttigieg's aggressive pro-abortion activism.

    ETA: Please note - this thread is NOT to reexamine whether Buttigieg is a "practicing Christian" or not - it's focused on the attempt to use the same scripture to justify "being born gay" that is also used to show that we are persons in our mother's womb.
    Using that, um, "logic," you can justify any and every sort of behavior.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Using that, um, "logic," you can justify any and every sort of behavior.
    It's the first time I've ever seen anybody try to use that scripture reference to justify "God made me that way".
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    this begs the question of is homosexuality a nature or a behavior? God created our nature, but we are responsible for our behaviors.

    Can a murderer claim "God made me this way?" for example?

    If so, then we are not responsible for any of our sin, God is. This would make God evil.

    We have free will. And we all have a fallen nature, due to Adam and Eve sinning. They are responsible for our sin nature, not God. And our nature doesn't force us to act, that is our own decision. Someone could be drawn to have same sex desires, but they don't have to act on them, just like a heterosexual doesn't have to act on their desires.

  10. #9
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    “For those who have a strong view about some of these almost unknowable questions around life, the best answer I can give, is that because we will never be able to settle those questions, in a consensus fashion,” he said in response to a question about abortion limits.


    He got that bit right at least - we don't even have a consensus on the readily observable fact that the world is globular.
    Sort of right, in that those opposing the consensus are going against readily observable fact. Wrong, in that he's one of those throwing up his hands in the face of evidence, willfully ignoring it.
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    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    As wrong as I think he is, and while I agree that this passage can be used to help highlight a fuller pro-life stance in the Bible, I think maybe it strains the context of the passage, and Bordone's use of it to say that he's unintentionally making an argument against Buttigieg's pro-life stance. First of all, one could possibly read this passage and still take away from it that the fetus is not a person, only that it shows the process that God started that made them the person they become when they are born. I think there's more to it than that, but I'm just saying that it's possible for someone to read less into it. Second of all, this isn't Buttigieg making this claim, it's someone who may not even know him, may disagree with him about abortion, but agrees with him about homosexuality with regard to Christianity. So I'm not really sure this is something that's strong enough to use as an argument against Buttigieg's views himself, or even really the law professor who made the comment. I'm sure there are strong arguments against their views (as nebulous as they are), but I don't know if this one is very useful. Just my personal 2 cents.

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