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Thread: Generation Y and Z Confirms Futurism is true

  1. #171
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    So I thought I'd update this thread in light of what we've seen in the last year, which IMO has been a rapid progression of things that reflect what this thread is about. In fact, it's occurring faster than I thought.

    I think what's happening in America is significant since America is the last bastion of Christian influence in the world. I'm NOT saying it's the only source spreading Christianity globally, but that it's obviously a major regional source because of it's wealth and resources.

    Though I see pockets of Christianity spreading worldwide, I don't really see another country like America that, for the most part, has laws based on Christian principles and that has (or once had) a strong Christian base nationwide. The EU is becoming secular. Obviously China is secular. Russia is secular, though not as predominant as the Asian countries, and of course countries in the mid east are predominantly Muslim.

    So my honest question to preterists is this: How do you interpret all the sociopolitical movements happening in America right now, primarily the Social Justice leftist movement that has become pervasive for at least a couple decades, and that attacks either physically or tries to silence anything or anyone that expresses Christian values?

    What do you think this means in the context of preterism? What is the outcome? Will the church prevail with perhaps a revival in America and wipe out the leftist SJ movement? Or will American churches fall victim to the leftist movements, while another country rises in its place? Will Christianity spread out sparsely throughout the world instead?
    “A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, ‘You are mad; you are not like us.'” + St. Anthony the Great

    The amillenial position (most preterists) is more or less that the world will go to pot before the end. Not sure how this is supposed to be a major challenge to preterism.
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  2. #172
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    “A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, ‘You are mad; you are not like us.'” + St. Anthony the Great

    The amillenial position (most preterists) is more or less that the world will go to pot before the end. Not sure how this is supposed to be a major challenge to preterism.
    Most of the preterists I've dealt with give the impression that the world is evolving positively (they even include modernism and advanced technology in this context, which is odd to me) and that the gospel is spreading and growing as a sign that Christ's kingdom is reigning on the earth, thus showing that preterism is true and the gloom and doom doctrine of futurism is not true. I've read that on a number of preterist sites and I believe AP held to that position when I used to debate him here long ago. So I guess I was addressing those preterists that hold that particular view.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  3. #173
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    “A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, ‘You are mad; you are not like us.'” + St. Anthony the Great

    The amillenial position (most preterists) is more or less that the world will go to pot before the end. Not sure how this is supposed to be a major challenge to preterism.
    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Most of the preterists I've dealt with give the impression that the world is evolving positively (they even include modernism and advanced technology in this context, which is odd to me) and that the gospel is spreading and growing as a sign that Christ's kingdom is reigning on the earth, thus showing that preterism is true and the gloom and doom doctrine of futurism is not true. I've read that on a number of preterist sites and I believe AP held to that position when I used to debate him here long ago. So I guess I was addressing those preterists that hold that particular view.
    To be more specific it's called Victorious Eschatology, and the views of this guy is not fringe, but pretty much the position I've heard every preterist argue that I've ever encountered. So the view you're presenting me is a preterist view I've never ever heard before...

    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  4. #174
    tWebber
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    *crickets*

    Man, that's quite a change from all the scoffing that went on in the beginning. Guess things don't look so funny anymore.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  5. #175
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Most of the preterists I've dealt with give the impression that the world is evolving positively (they even include modernism and advanced technology in this context, which is odd to me) and that the gospel is spreading and growing as a sign that Christ's kingdom is reigning on the earth, thus showing that preterism is true and the gloom and doom doctrine of futurism is not true. I've read that on a number of preterist sites and I believe AP held to that position when I used to debate him here long ago. So I guess I was addressing those preterists that hold that particular view.
    I have a hard time believing the world is evolving towards the better. There just seems too much evidence to the contray.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

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  6. #176
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    I have a hard time believing the world is evolving towards the better. There just seems too much evidence to the contray.
    Yeah, I never bought into that even years and years ago when I first started confronting preterists here. In fact, that's one of the main issues that stuck out to me the most that preterism was just wrong. I know for a fact AP used that argument in his debates with me here. Another person I encountered here used that argument incessantly, but I forgot his name and can't find his threads (unfortunately, I suspect it was on the old tweb before it crashed so I can't even prove AP made those arguments). I believe Dee argued this too, but I'm not as certain of that. Again, I've never ever heard the position that things will get bad before Christ returns from any preterist I've ever encountered. So I suspect that's a fringe position, and it's perhaps a way to adapt to certain recent events.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  7. #177
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    I have a hard time believing the world is evolving towards the better. There just seems too much evidence to the contray.
    I wonder, is this a confusion with postmillennialism (which does affirm that it the world is improving, and which largely lost favor after the two world wars for obvious reason?)
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  8. #178
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I wonder, is this a confusion with postmillennialism (which does affirm that it the world is improving, and which largely lost favor after the two world wars for obvious reason?)
    I saw a Babylon Bee article saying Postmillenials were listed as an endangered species.

    I have seen Preterists advance the argument seanD mentioned, just not super common in my experience.

  9. #179
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    I think I considered postmil at one point based on my attempts to make sense out of Isaiah 65:20 (which at face value could be taken to imply there is death in the New Jerusalem) but never fully embraced the position. As a whole, it seems weakly supported outside of late Isaiah which taken by themselves could make a case for it.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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