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Thread: Generation Y and Z Confirms Futurism is true

  1. #41
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    The biggest problem is that most things they would like to outlaw in Christianity (like speaking out against homosexuality) would also apply to Islam, and they are afraid to piss off Islam.
    What makes you think they won't appease one while eliminating the other? Since when is hypocrisy and double standard not a common feature of progressivism? In fact, they might even work in conjunction in eliminating Christianity.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  2. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
  3. #42
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    I don't know if Christianity will be pushed underground in the west. I think it will get harder and harder to find churches and people who are anything beyond Christian in name only. I think too many churches will become social clubs with a steeple.
    Doubtful, IMO. There are plenty of churches which fit that description now, but those are the ones which are hemorrhaging members. It's those who are least committed to the ideal which are most likely to ditch it entirely when it becomes inconvenient.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  4. Amen tabibito amen'd this post.
  5. #43
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Somehow the Chinese underground church does it in a culture where everyone is watched. Also, so do the North Koreans. Yeah the consequences are brutal but somehow Christianity survives there. We may just have to accept being comfortable and being Christian won't be possible at the same time. Including my own, I sometimes I think posts like this represent someone struggling with being Christian won't be comfortable anymore.

    I do think you're overstating how technology impacts our lives. Yes, what you say about the digital mob is true. But really, how many people and groups have been negatively impacted. Not that many. Frankly, I'm more concerned with what might happened if a progressive government lead by say President Sanders or President Harris came to power.

    Full disclosure: I have started being more careful on what I post to the Internet. I will no longer post some of my opinions on issues if I view them as too potentially controversial. I keep those between God and me.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

  6. #44
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    Somehow the Chinese underground church does it in a culture where everyone is watched. Also, so do the North Koreans. Yeah the consequences are brutal but somehow Christianity survives there. We may just have to accept being comfortable and being Christian won't be possible at the same time. Including my own, I sometimes I think posts like this represent someone struggling with being Christian won't be comfortable anymore.

    I do think you're overstating how technology impacts our lives. Yes, what you say about the digital mob is true. But really, how many people and groups have been negatively impacted. Not that many. Frankly, I'm more concerned with what might happened if a progressive government lead by say President Sanders or President Harris came to power.

    Full disclosure: I have started being more careful on what I post to the Internet. I will no longer post some of my opinions on issues if I view them as too potentially controversial. I keep those between God and me.
    You do bring up a good point. If there ever was such a thing as a technocratic dictatorship, it's definitely in China. They pretty much have gone full blown dystopian nightmare. Though I don't know much about the nuances of Christianity there, from what little I've read, churches are allowed as long as they remain under the control of the state. I could be wrong though. Also, again without knowing the social structure in China, it could be an entirely different culture than the aggressive leftist intolerant culture that bullies everyone in the west, and for some strange reason, has powerful influence.

    And I'm with you in regards to politics, which is why I'll probably vote this election for the first time in like two decades. Definitely not because I'm confident or even like Trump, but because if a democrat gets in the House this time around, we can pretty much kiss our first and second amendment rights goodbye for good. Those two amendments are hanging by a thread (though private enterprise seems to have already taken rather aggressive precedence against the first).
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  7. #45
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, I think Christianity will become more "acceptable" to the likes of Buttigieg and the media -- homosexuality, later term abortion is no problem -- don't pay much attention at all to the antiquated Bible, just "peace, love and anything goes".
    Sounds like Denmark.

  8. #46
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    You do bring up a good point. If there ever was such a thing as a technocratic dictatorship, it's definitely in China. They pretty much have gone full blown dystopian nightmare. Though I don't know much about the nuances of Christianity there, from what little I've read, churches are allowed as long as they remain under the control of the state. I could be wrong though. Also, again without knowing the social structure in China, it could be an entirely different culture than the aggressive leftist intolerant culture that bullies everyone in the west, and for some strange reason, has powerful influence.
    Yes, China is certainly a very different culture than ours. I'm not sure how to translate their experience to us.

    From what I understand, there are two different church groups in China: the official and the underground. As you said, the official is tolerated as long as it remains subordinated to the state. I don't know what kind of theological compromises result. I'm sure any member is monitored and their advancement at work and society is curtailed. I'll bet none of them have any position of power or authority.

    Then there is the underground church. I perceive them as trying to worship God and the Chinese state viewing them as some form of traitor. These are the people you may hear about getting years in reeducation camps for practicing their beliefs.

    Despite the cultural and political differences, I think a study of how both Chinese church groups work would be valuable. We might be getting a glimpse of the future of the church in the USA.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

  9. #47
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Doubtful, IMO. There are plenty of churches which fit that description now, but those are the ones which are hemorrhaging members. It's those who are least committed to the ideal which are most likely to ditch it entirely when it becomes inconvenient.
    Many churches are losing members these days. It doesn't seem to matter whether liberal, conservative, or middle-of-the-road. And these get the attention because they try to influence society. I suggest the social church doesn't care about influencing society and therefore has escaped notice.

    To my mind, these are the traits of a social club church:


    • God's only attribute is love.
    • Love is the cover for all actions. Your belief is on the lines of "God loves us therefore He approves of anything we do."
    • Don't teach or preach anything resembling having a relationship with God. In fact, the less mention of God, the better.
    • Generally speaking, never preach or teach on the following topics: sin, conviction, hell, repentance, salvation, suffering, denial of self, self-sacrifice, evangelism, (and I'm sure there's more...)
    • Recite the Bible in service but don't actually preach or teach it.
    • Focus on teachings that make the audience feel good with their lives.
    • Avoid taking a stand on any issue. If necessary, go with the popular point of view.
    • Do good works but make them easy on the congregation.
    • The expectations of membership are low.
    • Congregational care will be minimal.
    • What care is provided will be more along the lines of free therapy that will be empty of God.
    • Have lots of activities so the members stay busy. They don't have to have a spiritual component.
    • The justification for the church is "we existed for 40, 50, or more years so we should continue."


    After looking this over, I suggest a liberal church is interested in changing lives and society while a social club church wants to have a good time.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

  10. #48
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    After looking this over, I suggest a liberal church is interested in changing lives and society while a social club church wants to have a good time.
    Or, it could just be that they wanna "play church" and "feel good" without any of the not-so-fun stuff like repentance or guilt or preaching against sin --- having a form of godliness, they deny the power thereof.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. Amen Thoughtful Monk amen'd this post.
  12. #49
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    Many churches are losing members these days. It doesn't seem to matter whether liberal, conservative, or middle-of-the-road. And these get the attention because they try to influence society. I suggest the social church doesn't care about influencing society and therefore has escaped notice.

    To my mind, these are the traits of a social club church:


    • God's only attribute is love.
    • Love is the cover for all actions. Your belief is on the lines of "God loves us therefore He approves of anything we do."
    • Don't teach or preach anything resembling having a relationship with God. In fact, the less mention of God, the better.
    • Generally speaking, never preach or teach on the following topics: sin, conviction, hell, repentance, salvation, suffering, denial of self, self-sacrifice, evangelism, (and I'm sure there's more...)
    • Recite the Bible in service but don't actually preach or teach it.
    • Focus on teachings that make the audience feel good with their lives.
    • Avoid taking a stand on any issue. If necessary, go with the popular point of view.
    • Do good works but make them easy on the congregation.
    • The expectations of membership are low.
    • Congregational care will be minimal.
    • What care is provided will be more along the lines of free therapy that will be empty of God.
    • Have lots of activities so the members stay busy. They don't have to have a spiritual component.
    • The justification for the church is "we existed for 40, 50, or more years so we should continue."


    After looking this over, I suggest a liberal church is interested in changing lives and society while a social club church wants to have a good time.
    It does matter, actually. Mainline churches are quite obviously declining in membership. Conservative churches like Baptists are either holding steady or growing.

    There isn't a whole lot of difference, as far as I can tell, between 'liberal' and 'social club'. That's my experience, anyway. I disagree that a liberal church is particularly interested in changing lives (of its parishioners, at any rate).
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  13. #50
    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    Many churches are losing members these days. It doesn't seem to matter whether liberal, conservative, or middle-of-the-road. And these get the attention because they try to influence society. I suggest the social church doesn't care about influencing society and therefore has escaped notice.

    To my mind, these are the traits of a social club church:


    • God's only attribute is love.
    • Love is the cover for all actions. Your belief is on the lines of "God loves us therefore He approves of anything we do."
    • Don't teach or preach anything resembling having a relationship with God. In fact, the less mention of God, the better.
    • Generally speaking, never preach or teach on the following topics: sin, conviction, hell, repentance, salvation, suffering, denial of self, self-sacrifice, evangelism, (and I'm sure there's more...)
    • Recite the Bible in service but don't actually preach or teach it.
    • Focus on teachings that make the audience feel good with their lives.
    • Avoid taking a stand on any issue. If necessary, go with the popular point of view.
    • Do good works but make them easy on the congregation.
    • The expectations of membership are low.
    • Congregational care will be minimal.
    • What care is provided will be more along the lines of free therapy that will be empty of God.
    • Have lots of activities so the members stay busy. They don't have to have a spiritual component.
    • The justification for the church is "we existed for 40, 50, or more years so we should continue."


    After looking this over, I suggest a liberal church is interested in changing lives and society while a social club church wants to have a good time.
    I do not believe that social-club congregations have much of a problem in maintaining a belief in some kind of amorphous deity. That said, you will likely hear more reference to a god (generically defined) than Christ in such settings. (‘God’ is a more neutral, less offensive term.) However, even in a largely Christ-less context, portions of Jesus’ teachings may be used (falsely) to urge upon the hearers refrainment from judgement and for the purpose of stressing discontinuity between the Old and New Testaments. Scripture can therefore be largely ignored or viewed apart from the consideration of context.

    Furthermore, in my estimation, the undermining of scriptural authority is being (and will be) accomplished rather well, wittingly or unwittingly, by the progressive acceptance and promotion of evolutionary thought by teachers in Christian circles, thus effectively disproving the reliability of scripture in relation to the origin of humankind (specifically the historicity of our first parents) and, by implication, sexual ethics. The story of redemption thus loses its coherence as the creational accounts of scripture are reduced to pre-/non-scientific allegories or ‘poetry’ which bear no essential relation to actual, historical events.
    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

  14. Amen Cerebrum123, Thoughtful Monk amen'd this post.

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