Originally posted by shunyadragon
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In the Beginning was Information.
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Originally posted by DaveB View PostAnd if several ribonucleotide bases are joined together into a single polymeric ribonucleic acid molecule, which is what happens during transcription, that would also be a chemical reaction.
Yet you claim these strands are formed without a chemical reaction. How do you think the ribonucleotides get joined? Magnetism? Elastic bands? Rivets?
Oh, wait. There's no reason to care what you think.Last edited by Roy; 07-12-2019, 02:37 PM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by DaveB View Post"Intelligent design means that various forms of life began abruptly through an intelligent agency, with their distinctive features already intact. Fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks, wings, etc."
You could Google it if you wanted to.Last edited by Roy; 07-12-2019, 02:38 PM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by DaveB View PostAs a software engineer, you should realize that genetic algorithms, while great for harnessing the power of a computer to solve specific problems, are lousy as an example of evolution.
A genetic algorithm combines artificial selection (selection based on a pre-specified goal) with artificial "breeding" (breeding only those that are artificially selected). Evolution has no such goal.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View Post
from Of Pandas and people.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI mistyped the previous pot.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo, that's the definition of "Intelligent design" from Of Pandas and People. I'd suggest you try Googling it yourself, but I suspect you already know this and are trying to pretend otherwise.
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostDifferential reproductive success. Individuals with reproductive advantage tend to reproduce more and spread their genes through the population. More Evolution 101 for you to learn.
There are many feedback loops in the body, even at the cellular level. But, for evolution, the input is a random mutation and the output is an increase in fitness.
Correct?
Is there really a mechanism that feeds the fitness advantage of a mutation back to something that controls random mutations? (I don't think so).
Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostThese sort of pre-biotic self replicators
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostIntelligent Design is just rebranded Creationism. That was made clear over a decade ago when the IDiots face planted at Kitzmiller v. Dover.
If you want to say the ID implies a Creator, then I agree with you, but I think that ID can stand on its own in the question of whether something was designed or not.
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostHi, biologist here to tell you you have no idea of what you're talking about, and should probably learn some biology before claiming to be able to say anything about evolution.
DNA and RNA are a polymer with a backbone where sugars are linked through phosphodiester bonds. Creating these phosphodiester bonds involves a chemical reaction, typically catalyzed by an enzyme in cells. Pretty much all of biology can be distilled down to chemistry (reactions, charged/van der Waals interactions, etc.) if you look in enough detail.
Here is what I was responding to.
And if several ribonucleotide bases are joined together into a single polymeric ribonucleic acid molecule, which is what happens during transcription, that would also be a chemical reaction.
Aside from the fact that saying bases are joined together is clearly wrong, my response was actually aimed at the bolded part of the post.
I'm saying that it isn't a (single) reaction. I'm not saying that there are no chemical reactions involved anywhere with transcription or translation (or biology in general),
But you saying that there are reactions involved at the lowest level is no different than an electrical engineer describing how the transistors and capacitors of computer memory work. So what? What is the importance of your argument?
Originally posted by TheLurch View PostBases on a single strand of DNA and RNA also most certainly make contact with each other. They're hydrophobic, and typically stack on top of each other, as that's chemically favorable in an aqueous environment. In addition, the DNA/RNA strand can loop back and base pair with itself, forming what are called hairpin structures.
Originally posted by TheLurch View PostI care what informed people think, as i can often learn from them. But you've just demonstrated that, when it comes to biology, the opposite of what you say is likely to be true.Last edited by DaveB; 07-16-2019, 12:27 PM.
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Originally posted by DaveB View PostA feedback mechanism feeds information about the output of a system back to something that controls the input. For example, the O2 sensor in a car's exhaust system feeds information about the exhaust gases back to the fuel system which can then adjust the fuel injection if necessary.
There are many feedback loops in the body, even at the cellular level. But, for evolution, the input is a random mutation and the output is an increase in fitness.
Correct?
Is there really a mechanism that feeds the fitness advantage of a mutation back to something that controls random mutations? (I don't think so).
The randomness of the timing of individual events cannot cause something to happen or not in a series of cause and effect outcomes.
Proteins were the first self replicators? Interesting.Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-16-2019, 12:48 PM.
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Originally posted by DaveB View PostA feedback mechanism feeds information about the output of a system back to something that controls the input. For example, the O2 sensor in a car's exhaust system feeds information about the exhaust gases back to the fuel system which can then adjust the fuel injection if necessary.
There are many feedback loops in the body, even at the cellular level. But, for evolution, the input is a random mutation and the output is an increase in fitness.
Correct?
Is there really a mechanism that feeds the fitness advantage of a mutation back to something that controls random mutations? (I don't think so).
Proteins were the first self replicators? Interesting.
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[QUOTE=shunyadragon;650087]Repeated misuse and misrepresentation of 'randomness.' Only the timing of a mutation or any other event, is random. The processes and outcome of the chain of events involving evolution are not random. They are determined by the LAws of NAture and the environment.
I don't know where you're getting your definition of random, but if a mutation is random, not only is the "when" random, but also the "where" (where in the genome) and the "what" (what type of mutation).
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostToo simplistic a statement. The primitive RNA were the first replicators.
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Originally posted by DaveB View PostYou're half right. The ID textbook in the Dover case was a rebranded creationist textbook. And the school board members were creationists (young earth, I believe). But it wasn't the ID community that was pushing for the school policy.
Once again you have no idea what you're blithering about.
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Originally posted by DaveB View PostOriginally posted by shunyadragon View PostRepeated misuse and misrepresentation of 'randomness.' Only the timing of a mutation or any other event, is random. The processes and outcome of the chain of events involving evolution are not random. They are determined by the LAws of NAture and the environment.
Not according to HMS_Beagle.
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